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Post by Beth on Feb 26, 2016 2:17:54 GMT
Beth I suspect Custer felt a sense of entitlement to what ever he wanted and was not hesitant to act. Sherman, Sheridan and Libbie enabled him to demand and expect his actions to be approved and validated. He never shied away from taking what he perceived to be his regardless of whether he was right or wrong. He was a calculating cold bloodied killer of enemies or his own soldiers and who looked upon warfare as a glorious activity. Custer's narcissistic personality disorder was evident in his desire for approval and praise. He cared little for others except for what they could do for him. I wonder if he regretted the loss of those following him or did they merely pave the way for his seeking glory and additional honors? Custer was a toxic leader who cajoled his way out of further punishment after his court martial in 1867. His sins were greater than either Reno or Benteen who each were later sentenced after a court martial. Regards Dave What was the breaking or tipping point in Custer's personal or professional life that saw he go from respected and generally well liked leader to a "toxic" leader? Postwar regular army--pretty much when he stopped being the "youngest General" and had to be one of many other Generals trying to fit into the new army or find a place in the civilian world. Custer didn't have much to offer the civilian world immediately after the war so he was left with the army. By the time ACW ended Custer was antebellum anachronisms in a new postbellum army. Both war and the army were changed and Custer was sort of left lagging behind. He had been promoted so fast that he didn't have a chance to learn the skills of that officers who moved themselves through the ranks did. He knew how to charge madly into the enemy's forces with men following him but not how to manage a regiment. The work of a peacetime army was dead dull and Custer's answer to his lack of experience was to become a by-the-book disciplinarian to the point that on the way to his postwar assignment in Texas his men were pretty much ready to lynch him. I suspect that is when you really see him gathering his Clan around him and becoming more insular and tone deaf to the reality of his situation and the world around him.
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dave
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Post by dave on Feb 26, 2016 2:21:46 GMT
Matt Custer seemed to go downhill with his soldiers at the end of the War in 1865. He no longer had highly motivated soldiers but rather those who were looking for 3 squares a day and or a way out west for fame and fortune. Custer's inability to dazzle his soldiers with his past exploits or motivate them to follow him without question and poor rations and conditions caused his leadership to turn toxic. Custer never understood how to motive or command and lead reluctant volunteers who had no desire to sacrifice themselves for the greater good---Custer's desires---and just wanted to serve their time and get out. As Beth has pointed out his legion of sycophants provided poor information about the realities of the 7th just what Custer wanted to hear. Regards Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 12:07:37 GMT
What was the breaking or tipping point in Custer's personal or professional life that saw he go from respected and generally well liked leader to a "toxic" leader? His actions and their consequences in his first year out West. For a good article on everything that happened, read "The West breaks in General Custer" here: https ://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-the-west-breaks-in-general-custer/13206
Mind you he was, and is, still popular with lots of people, but I think his annus horribilis damaged his contemporary reputation and the aura that he could do no wrong. Cheers, conrad
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dave
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Post by dave on Feb 26, 2016 16:07:11 GMT
Conrad Excellent article! Thank you for sharing. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Mar 4, 2016 15:29:46 GMT
Being reduced in rank from Major General to Captain and then only being appointed Lieutenant Colonel, compounded by staying at that rank for ten years. Had not the Army greatly expended post ACW as compared to its prewar organization Custer would have stayed a Captain, and possibly retired as a Major. Who knows, he may have learned to command a company and been better thought of for it.
Same thing happened after WWI and WWII. Most adjusted. Some never did, and were not worth a pound of crap afterward.
Everything he did thereafter displayed a sense of entitlement, and more properly that the rules only apply to the other fellow, not to me.
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Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2016 21:05:37 GMT
I don't think Custer's pride would have let him remain 10 years as a Captain, he would have found it stifling and perhaps degrading--after all he was General George Armstrong Custer. I suspect he might have found a position in any number of other armies in the world who were looking for experienced soldiers.
I wonder how confusing it got post ACW when they referred to officers as the brevet rank instead of actual. Wouldn't it mean that a Colonel or Lt Colonel would be expected to say to one of his Captains "General, I want you to take Company A, B and C and scout the ravine to the south." Would the former General now Captain have to show deference all officers who are currently over his rank or would all officers have to show deference to the brevet General.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Mar 4, 2016 23:13:59 GMT
I don't think Custer's pride would have let him remain 10 years as a Captain, he would have found it stifling and perhaps degrading--after all he was General George Armstrong Custer. I suspect he might have found a position in any number of other armies in the world who were looking for experienced soldiers. I wonder how confusing it got post ACW when they referred to officers as the brevet rank instead of actual. Wouldn't it mean that a Colonel or Lt Colonel would be expected to say to one of his Captains "General, I want you to take Company A, B and C and scout the ravine to the south." Would the former General now Captain have to show deference all officers who are currently over his rank or would all officers have to show deference to the brevet General. Another million $ question. Regular Army rank, was what mattered, respect for past deeds or rank, not withstanding. Custer who had been a M.G. at wars end, had to say to Sturgis or Miles, "yes sir." I once worked with and for MSGT, who had been a Captain at the end of WWII.
Regards, Tom
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Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2016 23:39:39 GMT
I could see where that could stick in someone's craw-especially if you believe you are more capable over someone who you now have to salute.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Mar 5, 2016 1:16:39 GMT
Beth,
Ask Chuck, he never had to say yes sir to a "military, political hack." Sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you ****. We have all worked for them, and it is still your job to do your job to the best of your ability, as long as you are willing to take the pay check. On a civilian basis I have walked, and it was good money.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2016 1:52:11 GMT
I have, and you feel like you want to puke, then you pull up your big boy pants and do your job
There is a scene in Fort Apache, in the Bellah story as well, where Wayne calls Fonda general, to which Fonda turns to Wayne and says something like -- A man is what he is paid for, and I am paid in the rank of Lieutenant Colonel -- totally unrealistic. That would have never happened in the post ACW army.
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dave
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Post by dave on Mar 6, 2016 2:02:58 GMT
My last 7 years working at the university were difficult in that I had 2 Vice Chancellors who did not have me on their Christmas Card lists. The first one was from Dominica and he believed all white male staff members were racists and treated us accordingly. Sadly a white male has a little recourse against such actions and he only showed his hand when in private meetings. The university eventually assisted in his departure to a northern school. The next one came from a regional school in North Carolina and desired that for the university instead of being a flag ship institution he had been since 1844. We butted heads and I came out second best. My head was bloody but not bowed even when he would give a 1/2 percent raise. If he had not given a raise I would have been able to appeal but he was to clever for that faux pas. He left shortly after I retired and went to another large state school. He lost his faculty position there and left soon after. Don't know where and don't care. As you can tell my attitude was just fine and they were wrong! Regards Dave
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