Custer--Before Little Bighorn

[Beth]

I have to begin by saying I don't hunt and I don't ride.  However can someone explain to me exactly how Custer managed to shoot his own horse while trying to shoot a buffalo?

[deadwoodgultch]

Yes, Beth. One must be so intent on one task(hunting)while on a horse which does not provide a smooth ride and turns abruptly. Now you do drive a vehicle, as do modern day hunters. First, most areas do not allow hunting while driving, but there is no law against using your hood as a rest to shoot from if you are on private land. Two older gentlemen were groundhog hunting(I knew these gentlemen)and using the hood of a brand new Ford Bronco as a rest. They did not take into account that the sight line of a scope is different than that of the iron sights on the rifles barrel, hence a rather nasty grove in the hood.

Regards,
Tom

[Beth]

I can understand about the scope but if you are sitting on a horse--which me must have been on the horse, does any of the horse come between the shooter and the target. I guess unless he was riding straight at the buffalo and the horse raised it's head. I know the story is meant to be amusing but it really shows a person who acts impulsively without totally thinking through the total consequences of their actions.

[deadwoodgultch]

Beth,
Can we just settle on sloppy execution, it would not be the first time in his life, nor the last.
Regards,
Tom

[azranger]

Some of the fun was riding up close to a buffalo and shooting at point blank range. So if you are attempting to shoot at a 45 degree and the buffalo is  a little ahead at the final moment of trigger pull and  your focused most likely he didn't see that horse has turned it head.

Regards

AZ Ranger

[Deleted]

Custer was riding with cocked revolver to shoot a buffalo at close range. The buffalo changed direction and gored his horse, and in his attempt to stay on Custer accidentally pulled the trigger.

Custer's own words from "My Life on the Plains":

"Mile after mile was traversed in this way, until the rate and distance began to tell perceptibly on the bison, whose protruding tongue and labored breathing plainly betrayed his distress.  Determined to end the chase and bring down my game, I again placed the muzzle of the revolver close to the body of the buffalo, when, as if divining my intention, and feeling his inability to escape by flight, he suddenly determined to fight and at once wheeled, as only a buffalo can, to gore my horse.  So sudden was this movement, and so sudden was the corresponding veering of my horse to avoid the attack, that to retain my control over him I hastily brought up my pistol hand to the assistance of the other.  Unfortunately as I did so my finger, in the excitement of the occasion, pressed the trigger, discharged the pistol,and sent the fatal ball into the very brain of the noble animal I rode.  Running at full speed he fell dead in the course of his leap.  Quick as thought I disengaged myself from the stirrups and found myself whirling through the air over and beyond the head of my horse.  My only thought, as I was describing this trajectory, and my first thought on reaching terra firma,was:"What will the buffalo do with me?"  Although at first inclined to rush upon me, my strange procedure seemed to astonish him.  Either that or pity for the utter helplessness of my condition inclined him to alter his course and leave me alone to my own bitter reflections."

Original here: babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015005153534;view=1up;seq=143


The craziest part is this was in the middle of the pursuit of the Cheyennes as part of Hancock's campaign, and by this point he was riding alone miles ahead of his column.

Cheers,

conrad

[Deleted]

In Libby's "Tenting on the Plains" there's a fanciful illustration of the encounter by Frederic Remington: babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044009570219;view=1up;seq=593;size=125

[azranger]

Good post  conrad

Sounds like what I thought without reading the actual account. The only difference is the cause of the focus or tunnel vision.

 I worked at our buffalo ranch at Raymond Ranch. Had my worse horse accident there on my best horse. Another horse Navajo-Apache was gored by a buffalo and I had him at my home for 14 months.

We stuck three rolls of gauze in the wound channel soaked in betadine solution. Removed them one at time as the wound healed.

Regards

AZ Ranger

[dave]

Conrad
Your post below:
The craziest part is this was in the middle of the pursuit of the Cheyennes as part of Hancock's campaign, and by this point he was riding alone miles ahead of his column.

Cheers,

conrad


This pretty much sums up Custer's lack of situational awareness and poor planning for any type of activity. It has been mentioned by others that Custer in the past always had someone else doing the planning and organizing allowing him to rush about where ever he chose. 

Placing himself in great danger being alone in hostile territory was a precursor to his actions at the LBH. montrose had mentioned Custer's inability to properly plan any event let alone a campaign and I agree. Custer behaved as a juvenile frat boy having a blast on a hunting excursion that happened to be after the most dangerous game, man.
Regards
Dave

[Beth]

I suspect Custer felt that if he wanted to do it, that anything else would wait and the inability to think through the total consequences of any action.

[dave]

Beth
I suspect Custer felt a sense of entitlement to what ever he wanted and was not hesitant to act. Sherman, Sheridan and Libbie enabled him to demand and expect his actions to be approved and validated. He never shied away from taking what he perceived to be his regardless of whether he was right or wrong. He was a calculating cold bloodied killer of enemies or his own soldiers and who looked upon warfare as a glorious activity.

Custer's narcissistic personality disorder was evident in his desire for approval and praise. He cared little for others except for what they could do for him. I wonder if he regretted the loss of those following him or did they merely pave the way for his seeking glory and additional honors? Custer was a toxic leader who cajoled his way out of further punishment after his court martial in 1867. His sins were greater than either Reno or Benteen who each were later sentenced after a court martial.
Regards
Dave

[deadwoodgultch]

Dave,
Custer was not the only narcissistic military leader/general we have had. I am sure you know this. How did it impact the LBH?

Regards,
Tom

[Beth]

Feb 26, 2016 0:08:39 GMT deadwoodgultch said:

Dave,
Custer was not the only narcissistic military leader/general we have had. I am sure you know this. How did it impact the LBH?

Regards,
Tom

I suspect that quite a few military leaders were perhaps on the narcissistic side--as well as many other successful men and women in business, industry and entertainment. A certain amount of narcissism isn't always a bad thing unless you have to work directly with.  It come across as being confident but with a subtle difference.  Any leader might say.  "This project succeeded because I have a great team" but someone more narcissistic would put the emphasis on the "I: and another type of leader on "team."

It's when narcissism gets extreme to the point it's pathological that it becomes problem.

However when it comes to Custer at LBH I suspect inability to listen to council outside of his inner circle, might have been a factor.  A circle of tight 'yes men' like the Custer Clan is a sign of narcissism.

[dave]

Tom
You sure are being hard on an old man like me asking all these questions! That being said allow me to make a fool out of myself all alone.
GAC ranks alongside Napoleon, McClellan, MacArthur, Ernie King and LBJ as examples of grandiose narcissists. Custer was an exhibitionist always seeking attention who had a sense of entitlement and was never accused of being physically weak . He followed his own plan while failing to share it with his subordinates and continued to strew his command across the terrain as he doggedly rode north denying mutual support to his companies after leaving 3411.
Custer believed in his own luck and decisions and had little need or desire for input. He held himself above others and probably went to his grave not believing that the Indians had not retreated and were attacking.
Regards
Dave

[deadwoodgultch]

Dave, Matt,

Matt, Custer was not seen as toxic by me or most who served him. He had demons, which are easy to see in hindsight. He was spoiled by many who he served. he had a very bad day on 6/25/76, he could have had a few others Trevilian Station and the Washita. Bailed out at Trevilian's and Custer Luck at The Washita. We must remember that luck is where opportunity and preparation meet.

Dave, see above. We do not disagree.

Regards,
Tom