dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Dec 21, 2015 15:40:06 GMT
Allow me to relate how difficult it is to read "No Silent Night" for a person not familiar with the organization of a army division, regiment, battalion, company, platoons and squads. Coupled with an utter lack of knowledge of mechanized vehicles. For example/ M8, M18, M20, Panzer 4, Panther and Tiger. I am comfortable with the organization of army units during the War and up to the Battle of Wounded Knee but after that it is a mystery. So I read Barron's book while having my computer on and searching for tanks, armored cars and tank destroyers. He is an excellent writer and able to relate complex actions into a manner that can be understood by novices. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Dec 22, 2015 19:02:16 GMT
Battle of the Bulge aspect was moved to it's own thread
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carl
Recruit
Posts: 48
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Post by carl on Dec 25, 2015 3:20:36 GMT
Carl: Give me the designation of your FA battalion when you served with the Constabulary, then give me your Guard FA battalion. I will post the lineages of both as an example of the differences between the RA and Guard so that readers of this thread can see the differences in how it is done between the RA and Guard. Also send me your home address by PM so that I can send you the DA Pam. Joan says she can scan and print on her computer printer here at home so I won't need to get them printed elsewhere. Just got around to reading this. 517th Armd FA Bn - lineage was from 35th FA Regt. (I have FA Bns of the US Army by Sawicki which gives lineage up to 1978 I was also in the 597th Armd FA Bn, one of the FA Bns in the 93rd Inf Div and joined this Bn in 1952 when it was integrated. 4th Howitzer Bn, 185th Fa Regt Btry C in Marshalltown Iowa was a Hv Wpns Co in the 1920s, I think Co D of the 133rd Inf Regt Converted to a 155 Btry, 5th How Bn, 185th in 1959 (pentomic division) in 1963 to 4th Bn 185th in 1963. After my time became in MP Company and then a Signal Company. Correction The Marshalltown unit was Company H, 168th Inf Regt up to 1941 when called into Federal Service
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Dec 25, 2015 5:14:45 GMT
Chuck, Sometime when you have nothing better to do, post the lineage of my old unit, the 1st BN, 67th Armor, part of the 2AD. I hate to admit I never really studied the lineage of the unit back then. Was too busy just learning my job and doing what I was supposed to do. Patton IV kept us in the field almost continually, so not much leisure time back then.
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carl
Recruit
Posts: 48
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Post by carl on Dec 25, 2015 17:00:25 GMT
2133d TRANSPORTATION COMPANY
Organized and Federally recognized 1 June 1923 in the Iowa National Guard at Marshalltown as Company H, 168th Infantry, an element of the 34th Division (later redesignated as the 34th Infantry Division)
Inducted into Federal service 10 February 1941 at Marshalltown
Inactivated 3 November 1945 at Camp Patrick Henry, Virginia
Reorganized and Federally recognized 26 June 1947 at Marshalltown as Company D, 168th Infantry
Converted and redesignated 1 May 1959 as Battery A, 3d Howitzer Battalion, 185th Artillery, an element of the 34th Infantry Division
Reorganized and redesignated 1 March 1963 as Battery C, 4th Howitzer Battalion, 185th Artillery, and relieved from assignment to the 34th Infantry Division
Converted and redesignated 1 January 1968 as the 185th Military Police Company
Converted and redesignated 1 October 1979 as Company B, 234th Signal Battalion
Reorganized and redesignated 1 September 1990 as Company C, 234th Signal Battalion
Ordered into active Federal service 15 March 2003 at Marshalltown; released from active Federal service 13 August 2004 and reverted to state control
Converted and redesignated 1 September 2006 as the 2133d Transportation Company
HOME STATION: Marshalltown (less detachments at Muscatine and Centerville)
CAMPAIGN PARTICIPATION CREDIT
World War II Algeria-French Morocco (with arrowhead) Tunisia Naples-Foggia Anzio Rome-Arno North Apennines Po Valley
War on Terrorism Campaigns to be determined
DECORATIONS
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer embroidered CERVARO, ITALY
Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army), Streamer embroidered SOUTHWEST ASIA 2003-2004
French Croix de Guerre with Palm, World War II, Streamer embroidered BELVEDERE
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Post by quincannon on Dec 25, 2015 19:45:30 GMT
Now that a lineage. Carl you don't need any help from me.
Colt: Later today or probably more like tomorrow.
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Post by Beth on Dec 25, 2015 21:50:14 GMT
Would you believe that I lived in Marshalltown for 5 years and both girls were born there and I had no idea it even had a National Guard unit even though I've been on the grounds of the veterans home quite a number of times--just never noticed the armory--talk about functional fixedness. Most everyone I knew who was in the National Guard in Central Iowa were connected to Boone.
I seriously thought all Iowa National Guard units were the all the same group so I really appreciate the information.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 26, 2015 17:10:11 GMT
!ST BATTALION, 67TH ARMOR
LINEAGE:
Constituted 24 March 1923 in the Regular Army as Company A, 19th Tank Battalion, Heavy.
Redesignated 1 September 1929 as Company A, 2nd Tank Regiment.
Redesignated 31 October 1932 as Company A, 67th Infantry (Medium Tanks).
Activated 5 June 1940 at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Redesignated 15 July 1940 as Company A, 67th Armored Regiment.
Redesignated 23 March 1946 as Company D, 6th Tank Battalion, and element of the 2nd Armored Division.
Redesignated 31 January 1949 as Company D, 6th Medium Tank Battalion.
(6th Medium Tank Battalion relived 14 July 1950 of assignment to 2nd Armored Division, and assigned 6 October 1950 to the 24th Infantry Division)
Redesignated 10 November 1951 as Company D, 6th Tank Battalion.
Redesignated 1 July 1957 as Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Medium Tank Battalion, 67th Armor, relieved of assignment to the 24th Infantry Division, assigned to the 2nd Armored Division, transferred (less personnel and equipment from Korea to Germany and reorganized (organic elements concurrently constituted and activated).
Reorganized and redesignated 1 July 1963 as 1st Battalion, 67th Armor.
Relieved 16 January 1996 of assignment to the 2nd Armored Division and assigned to the 4th Infantry Division.
CAMPAIGN ARTICIPATION:
WORLD WAR I
Somme Offensive
WORLD WAR II
Algeria-French Morocco (with arrowhead)* Tunisia* Sicily (with arrowhead* Normandy* Northern France* Rhineland* Ardennes-Alsace* Central Europe*
KOREAN WAR
UN Defensive* UN Offensive* CCF Intervention* First UN Counteroffensive* CCF Spring Offensive* UN Summer Fall Offensive* Second Korean Winter* Korea Summer 1953
SOUTHWEST ASIA
Defense of Saudi Arabia* Liberation and Defense of Kuwait* Cease Fire*
WAR ON TERRORISM
Iraq*
DECORATIONS
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer Embroidered NORMANDY
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer embroidered SIEGFRIED LINE
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer embroidered KOKSU-RI
Navy Unit Commendation, Streamer embroidered SAUDI ARABIA-KUWAIT
Belgian Fourragere 1940
Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action September 1944 in BELGIUM
Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action December 1944 in the ARDENNES
Republic Of Korea Presidential Unit Citation, streamer embroidered KOREA
NOTE The * indicates participation in the campaign. The absence of an * indicates the battle honor belongs to the parent regiment (67th Armor), and in carried on the colors of the constituent unit.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Dec 27, 2015 22:47:05 GMT
!ST BATTALION, 67TH ARMOR
LINEAGE:
Constituted 24 March 1923 in the Regular Army as Company A, 19th Tank Battalion, Heavy.
Redesignated 1 September 1929 as Company A, 2nd Tank Regiment.
Redesignated 31 October 1932 as Company A, 67th Infantry (Medium Tanks).
Activated 5 June 1940 at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Redesignated 15 July 1940 as Company A, 67th Armored Regiment.
Redesignated 23 March 1946 as Company D, 6th Tank Battalion, and element of the 2nd Armored Division.
Redesignated 31 January 1949 as Company D, 6th Medium Tank Battalion.
(6th Medium Tank Battalion relived 14 July 1950 of assignment to 2nd Armored Division, and assigned 6 October 1950 to the 24th Infantry Division)
Redesignated 10 November 1951 as Company D, 6th Tank Battalion.
Redesignated 1 July 1957 as Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Medium Tank Battalion, 67th Armor, relieved of assignment to the 24th Infantry Division, assigned to the 2nd Armored Division, transferred (less personnel and equipment from Korea to Germany and reorganized (organic elements concurrently constituted and activated).
Reorganized and redesignated 1 July 1963 as 1st Battalion, 67th Armor.
Relieved 16 January 1996 of assignment to the 2nd Armored Division and assigned to the 4th Infantry Division.
CAMPAIGN ARTICIPATION:
WORLD WAR I
Somme Offensive
WORLD WAR II
Algeria-French Morocco (with arrowhead)* Tunisia* Sicily (with arrowhead* Normandy* Northern France* Rhineland* Ardennes-Alsace* Central Europe*
KOREAN WAR
UN Defensive* UN Offensive* CCF Intervention* First UN Counteroffensive* CCF Spring Offensive* UN Summer Fall Offensive* Second Korean Winter* Korea Summer 1953
SOUTHWEST ASIA
Defense of Saudi Arabia* Liberation and Defense of Kuwait* Cease Fire*
WAR ON TERRORISM
Iraq*
DECORATIONS
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer Embroidered NORMANDY
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer embroidered SIEGFRIED LINE
Presidential Unit Citation (Army), Streamer embroidered KOKSU-RI
Navy Unit Commendation, Streamer embroidered SAUDI ARABIA-KUWAIT
Belgian Fourragere 1940
Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action September 1944 in BELGIUM
Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action December 1944 in the ARDENNES
Republic Of Korea Presidential Unit Citation, streamer embroidered KOREA
NOTE The * indicates participation in the campaign. The absence of an * indicates the battle honor belongs to the parent regiment (67th Armor), and in carried on the colors of the constituent unit.
Thanks Chuck. That's great stuff. I remember seeing the colors at Bn HQ containing all the WW1, WW2, and Korean streamers. I wasn't aware that the unit had been transferred to the 4th ID. Thanks again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 12:41:50 GMT
This is why I do not get too wrapped around lineage. The true lineage of Special Forces is the OSS. The operational detachment Alpha (A team) is derived from the OSS team design of WW2.
The lineage to the 1st SSF was actually a deliberate insult. 1st SSF consisted of high quality Canadian volunteers, and low quality US soldiers, purged as a levy from numerous units. Special Forces wanted to bring in people for a rigorous course, with high attrition. Pass rate was about 19%. The Army personnel guys hated this, since this meant they PCSd (moved) hundreds of soldiers to Bragg, who failed and needed new assignments. So the lineage implies that SF is the scum of the Army, consisting of men who failed to perform in other units.
Note the second link is to the 75th Ranger Regiment. There is no link whatsoever between the two, and even the Rangers were insulted by the link.
By the way, I see I should have received a unit medal from the above. But I will be damned if I have to order another ribbon display. I got one when I retired which is on my parents wall somewhere. It will go to my son one day, as will the medals of my grandfather. All three of us have the same name. Except the little muttonhead plans to join Ians Army, since he is a dual citizen. And Ian, when I explained to him that my ancestors include Scots, he was horrified.
One day I will tell you the story of that, and why I use the moniker Montrose from English Civil War.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 28, 2015 14:21:10 GMT
Jeez William, I thought all along that your ancestors owned this place and you were simply carrying on the tradition; linkPlease tell your our son that I said he has got taste and style, and one day he will make a fine officer and gentleman and I hope he meets the Queen. Yan.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 29, 2015 16:39:20 GMT
Montrose is correct that the establishment of the 1st Special Forces as a parent regiment under the Combat Arms Regimental System was not the finest hour of the lineage weenies at CMH.
To do this they combined the collective lineages of the 1st Special Service Force and all six of the ranger battalions. In theory what they wanted is if any unit deviated in mission from the Infantry norm in the future, that unit was to be called special forces. Also in theory there could be ranger groups under the 1st Special Forces. That never happened but it was in the plans.
Montrose is also correct that the Special Forces mission are just like or more like the OSS (Office of Strategic Services). OSS was a civilian organization, that employed military people from all the services, plus large numbers of civilians. Trying to draw a military lineage for 1st Special Forces from OSS, would be like trying to do the same thing from the Postal Service or Department of Agriculture,
It is a long tradition in the U S Army that when the call goes out for volunteers for hazardous duty at some unspecified location that the guard houses are emptied, and every misfit "your" unit has is "encouraged" to volunteer. One complete battalion of the 5307th Composite Unit (Provisional) was raised by emptying every guardhouse south of the Mason Dixon Line.
The only two units that I can find in the U S Army during WWII that were raised correctly were the 1st Ranger Battalion and the Alamo Scouts. Personnel for both these units were subject to a rigorous selection process. I know the process was not continued to the same standard when the 3rd and 4th Ranger Battalions were raised in North Africa. I don't have a lot on the records of the 2nd and 5th Battalions, but using dates as a guide there was not much time for the same selection process. The 6th Ranger battalion was a pack mule artillery battalion one day and a ranger battalion the next.
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Post by Beth on Dec 29, 2015 19:50:19 GMT
QC--how finely can you get information for? I have my grandfather's WWI letters and he mentions that he was part of a unit of 50 men that were selected by the British to get a taste of the front. He also mentions fighting at the front with the British and Australians at Amiens but there are times in the letters to tell exactly what he is talking about. He did sign the letters as Company I 325 Infantry but he also mentions being with the 82th division. Frankly it's all confusing to me.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 29, 2015 21:19:17 GMT
Beth the 325th Infantry Regiment was a component part of the 82nd Division in World War I. All of the component parts of the division were raised country wide, which was a exception to raising divisions on a more localized regional basis. Thus the nickname - The All American Division.
If you ever have watched the Gary Cooper movie Sergeant York, it will give you some idea of the training and type of combat operations your grandfather went through. Sergeant York was in the 328th Infantry Regiment of that same 82nd Division.
The division is still active as the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, and the 325th Parachute Infantry Regiment is represented in that division by two active battalions.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Dec 29, 2015 21:19:22 GMT
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