Holes in ground.

[quincannon]

HR: As a matter of fact YES.

Mike: I understand your point, but you were up on the border with the Blackhorse. Urban sprawl has effected Europe as much as it has us though, and your 35 plus year absence is not reflective of Europe today, with the exception of large forested areas being largely intact.

An expectation of fifty percent casualties in the assaulting battalions I find to be asinine, and that too is my point. You would think that the leadership in that operation must have thought they were going up against the Waffen SS, instead of poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led Iraqi conscripts who did not want to be there in the first place. I recall reading material here that had those same slobs in uniform sound like they were ten feet tall and led by Hasso von Manteuffel or Erich von Manstein. That is a failure of intelligence. Freddie was everything that Norm thought he was. Timid, afraid to make a mistake, a three star nothingburger of a commander in combat. In the desert, according to a fellow that knew a thing or two about desert combat, you maneuver and keep on maneuvering then apply fire when necessary, but you don't stop even to take a crap.

[miker]

Well, FWIW 50% was "our" prediction. Not mine. Mine was less but I wasn't asked. There were other that were much higher. I thought the whole campaign might take six weeks, and it did. But 5 weeks were air preparation and 4 days were ground combat, such as it was. I understand how Germany is today. I have up to date 1:50,000 maps of the V Corps GDP. It is more cluttered than 77-80, but not terribly so. Had I been the planner, I would have tried some different things, I think. But i was just a REMF in the OPS van who wrote the SITREPS. Whatever. I don't have much good to say about Norm or Fred. Our CG was okay, but I have worked for better. None were like Saint or Maddox, but that may just be youthful exuberance on my part when they were just COL or LTC. I met them both as General's several times, but never directly worked for them like in the Black Horse. The only good thing I have to say about Franks is he was in the Blackhorse once too. RVN.

Rommel of course, had no concept of logistics. He wasn't half as good as people think.

[quincannon]

Regarding Norm and Freddie, I don't have much good to say either. Norm was in the Building when I was there, and he was nothing more than a street bully. That's not leadership.

Freddie was with the Blackhorse when he lost his leg. A very interesting academic paper could and should be written concerning officers who lose a limb in combat and go on to serve after they have recovered. I think is does something in many cases to their mind and further use as a field commander, Ewell and Hood come to mind. Very good division commanders until. After that either a timid piece of shit or an angry man who loses his overall judgment, I think Franks falls into the former category. Howard was somewhat of an outlier in that he was not worth a crap before or after. Phil Kearny was a ball of fire before and after. My favorite of all the ACW generals - "Go in gaily men, go in gaily".

Harmon, Wood, Rose, and Terry de la Mesa Allen

To paraphrase Longstreet's remarks on Lee's loss at Gettysburg, and apply it to Rommel's logistical issues - I think the Royal Navy had a bit to do with that. If he was not half as good as people think then what does that say about that collection of "It wasn't that way on the Somme" British also rans that were up against him? You damned well don't learn how to handle armor in the desert by playing Polo in Midsomer Mallow