|
Post by Elwood on Dec 30, 2023 22:06:16 GMT
Thank you Sir, I will look into that site.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 1, 2024 2:04:02 GMT
I believe that comment is quoted in Codman, who if it was said should know. If Patton turned right or left Codman would have broken his goddamned nose. Codman was Patton flac, so you will find nothing from Codman that is in any way derogatory.
Patton was not as brilliant a tactician as the public, especially the American public, believe him to be. In fact he was mediocre, not nearly the commander as Rose, Harmon, Truscott, or Terry Allen. As a human being he was a first class shit ass. Why is Patton considered the way he is? Mainly because he got his book published before anyone else. You cannot un-ring the goddamned bell.
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jan 1, 2024 17:06:32 GMT
Chuck, I had an uncle was grateful to Patton, as he got a bad case of shrapnel from a German mortar. This was the Bulge. I think one of the first tankers in, was Army Chief of Staff in the late 60's early 70's C. Abrams.
Happy New Year.
Regards, Tom
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 1, 2024 19:09:20 GMT
Abrams commanded a task force of 4th AD, built around the 37th Tank Battalion (today the 37th Armor Regiment). The lead company was Company C commanded by 1LT Charles Boggess in "Cobra King" an M4A3 Jumbo Sherman and his tank was the one that actually made contact with the 326th Engineer Combat Battalion (Airborne) of the 101st Airborne Division. Mike commanded that same company and knew Boggess, much later in his life of course. Mike tells me that after the war Boggess became a funeral director. I suppose he had plenty of practice.
A lot of people were grateful to Patton. My beef with Patton was that his own manufactured press clippings were well above his pay grade in performance. Monty and Bradley were in that same boat too. Leaving performance aside for a moment, I'll get back to that in a moment, his character in my view was well below that which is expected of a really great commander. If you want a glimpse of the real Patton, watch "Countdown to D Day" with Tom Sellick playing Ike. There is a scene early in the movie that will tell you all you need to know about what lay beneath Patton's chest full of medals, and every bit of that scene is true and pure as the driven snow.
Performance wise Patton's commands, I Armored Corps, II Corps, Seventh Army, and Third Army gained ground but sustained far too many casualties doing it. Look at the records of similar levels of command that were not under Third Army, and they gained just as much ground. Seventh Army under Patch even more and faster. There are two precepts to leadership, Accomplish the Mission, and look out for the welfare of your troops. One is not more important than the other. Both are equal. To those not familiar with the inside baseball of the Army they seem at great odds with one another. But no, they are not. If you want to accomplish the mission you train your troops to the point where training is harder than combat. You make sure they have adequate food. You provide for their shelter. You make sure they have what they need in terms of equipment hard stuff as well as expendables. You love them more than you love yourself. You weep when you lose even one. You develop plans that keep casualties to a minimum while still getting the job done. You do this as a commander, and they will walk on water for your sorry ass. There is no indication that Patton did any of this during any tenure of any command he held, in peace or war.
One thing to look at when you judge a commander's net worth is to ask whom did he fight. Look against whom Patton fought. French Colonials who really didn't want to fight. Germans and Italians in Tunis and Sicily, who were beaten and knew it before they faced him. Germans again in Lorraine, in full retreat knowing they had had their asses already whipped in Normandy. Then he got to Metz and had the crap kicked out of 3rd Army, by Germans who had no intention of retreating one step further. The road to Bastogne was no picnic either because the opposition was as stubborn as could be even considering that they themselves were hungry, ill supplied, and rated barely combat capable. In short, he never fought the New York Yankees, and could barely beat their farm team. Everyone rates Napoleon as an 19th Century Patton, but look too at those he fought, the sandlot teams of all Europe, until he met Arthur Wellesley.
Happy New Year back at you
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jan 1, 2024 19:38:38 GMT
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 1, 2024 21:22:56 GMT
If any of you recall Montrose never having a good word to say about Stephen Ambrose, watch this video that Ian provided and find out why. If it was ever a choice between the truth and a lie for Ambrose, the lie won every time.
Excellent find Ian. Thank you, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jan 2, 2024 8:50:49 GMT
You are welcome QC, youtube finds these clips for me, they build a profile on your searches and adds content for you. If you type in custer it will find you clips, but if a new clip about custer is released it finds it for you.
I was surprised by the english bloke, he knew his stuff, I think he has more on this subject, if I run into any I will add them here.
Ian
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 2, 2024 19:40:30 GMT
I watched several of his videos. You are quite correct he has his sheets together.
I wish I could find something similar on the age of fighting sail. I love the Hornblower novels (almost as much as I like Sharpe) along with Alexander Kent, and Patrick O'Brian, but when they start with reef the topsail, keel haul the bosun, and such like, I do not have a clue what they are referring to. I need a video on sailing a three masted frigate I suppose - Frigate 101 for Idiots.
Did my first Team Yankee building yesterday. It was one of their desert buildings which come pre-painted, but I wanted to give it a little bit of myself. I washed it in Sepia Wash from Vallejo which turned a dirty white factory finish into a dirty brown, then let it dry thoroughly. Last night I did and overall dry brush with Army Painter white which restored some of the white but left enough of the wash exposed to give that weathered, been in too many sandstorms, effect I was looking for. I trimmed up the exposed brick areas this morning. Looks pretty darn good if I do say so myself. Thinking about turning my poor talents to a ruined monastery next.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jan 2, 2024 19:47:16 GMT
I dont know if this is right for you link
Did you see the clip that English fella did on US uniforms in the bulge?
Ian
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 2, 2024 19:58:10 GMT
That's exactly what I wanted along with the other videos this one leads you to.
Have not watched the uniform video yet though it is nearing the top of my list.
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Feb 13, 2024 23:40:21 GMT
Patton was not as brilliant a tactician as the public, especially the American public, believe him to be. In fact he was mediocre, not nearly the commander as Rose, Harmon, Truscott, or Terry Allen. As a human being he was a first class shit ass. Why is Patton considered the way he is? Mainly because he got his book published before anyone else. You cannot un-ring the goddamned bell. I attended college at Abilene Christian in Abilene Texas. I remember in World history class I had an elderly professor who had been a chaplain in WWII. This is a Church of Christ college. There on a football scholarship. Anyway, he talked sometimes about the war, said the stuff about Patton believing in reincarnation was bunk. Not true. I was only interested in an A so I did not inquire any specifics. He definitely gave off the impression that he was not an admirer of Patton.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Feb 14, 2024 3:20:40 GMT
Patton was just like Trump, a rather tall little boy who thought the rules apply to everyone but him. That can only get you so far before people, like your chaplain professor, start seeing through the facade, and uncover the moral rot which lies beneath.
If it had been anyone but Patton who sent Task Force Baum to Hammelburg to rescue John Walters his son in law causing quite a number of US troops to get killed wounded and captured in the process, that officer would have stood before a court martial, been convicted and spent a few years as a guest of the government at Leavenworth. He was a first class shit ass and don't let anyone tell you any different Mister E.
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Mar 29, 2024 18:08:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Mar 29, 2024 22:52:47 GMT
Now that is a great story, and while I am a dedicated student of the Battle of the Bulge, it is one I have never heard before.
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Apr 4, 2024 19:05:02 GMT
|
|