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Post by quincannon on Feb 26, 2023 1:52:34 GMT
Probably all three reasons Elwood. The only guy who got it right was Koch, Patton's G-2, and that Patton plan of hitting the flank of the Bulge was due in large measure to Koch.
Problem for the Germans regarding weaponry was not the weapons, but the people to man them. Ian rightly points out that the majority of the assault rifles were in the hands of the Volksgrenadiers. When those regular Infantry divisions were converted into VG divisions, they lost three battalions (one per regiment) of infantry. Those shortfalls had to be made up for by additional firepower. The standard German Infantry squad was built around the machine gun as the base of fire, and riflemen as the maneuver element. As long as the Germans maintained the three battalion regiment the 98K was reliable, easily maintained and accurate. In the hands of a trained rifleman it was very formidable.
When you couple the decrease in number of battalions per division, a the fact that the VG divisions were filled with out of work sailors and airman, whose value as Infantry was nil, unless they had a year of training, which the did not have, you have to find some solution, and the assault rifle was an attempt to do that.
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 26, 2023 20:06:46 GMT
The total make up of Volksgrenadier Divisions goes deeper than just the loss of three battalions, their artillery regiment was weak because their batteries contained three howitzers instead of the standard four, plus one battalion contained obsolete 75mm field guns instead of the heavier 105mm leFH 18s. The Infantry companies had a weird set up, two squads in each platoon were armed with just MP44s and the third had MP44s and two MG42s.
Here is a what it looked like on paper; Platoon HQ Officer or NCO/Platoon Commander (MP44) 2 x Pvt/Messengers (MP44s) 3 x Private/Rifle Grenadiers (89ks + Grenade Launchers) Two Sturm Squads Each; NCO/Squad Leader (MP44) 7 x Privates (MP44s) Rifle Squad; NCO/Squad Leader (MP44) 3 x Privates (MP44) 2 x Pvt/LMG Gunners (Pistols) 2 x Pvt/Loader (MP44) 2 x MG42s At a guess, I would think that rifle squad with their two MG42s would act as a base of fire for the two sturm squads.
Ian
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Post by Elwood on Mar 6, 2023 18:41:34 GMT
About 280 pages in on Trumpets, almost half way. Read about Malmedy massacre. Bastogne still to come. Still amazed at the writing in this book. Interesting, reads quickly on one hand yet I’m constantly going back and re-reading paragraphs so as to not miss any details, so much info.
Found it interesting that German infiltrators actually accomplished little tactical advantages for the German army. Been led to believe over the years that they sowed quite a bit of confusion behind the American lines.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 6, 2023 20:31:24 GMT
Elwood, they also used other methods to hoodwink the US forces link
Ian
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Post by Elwood on Mar 6, 2023 22:32:09 GMT
Yes, the disguised Panthers. There is a pic in the book, caption says “captured Tiger tank”. Has US markings, stars. Tigers used too? Or is that a mis-print?
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 7, 2023 7:23:19 GMT
I will have to check on that tiger later, the only other german vehicle I saw was a STuG III in US markings, but I could have missed the tiger caption.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2023 7:57:40 GMT
Be careful here fellows. Some German vehicles were disguised to try and resemble U S vehicles at a distance, as a means of subterfuge, but many of the photos you see of German vehicles in OD with U S markings are just that, captured, and used by U S technical intelligence to evaluate the performance of those vehicles. This occurred both during and for a time after the war.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 7, 2023 10:56:33 GMT
Yes you are correct, a lot of German hardware fell into allied hands, many still in running order linkHere is a clip from Mark Felton concerning the same vehicle link
I don't know if any of you have seen the old British movie about Arnhem, it was filmed right after the war featuring the same paras and filmed on real locations with battle damage, they use captured armour in some on the battle sequences link
Ian
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Post by Elwood on Mar 7, 2023 16:51:04 GMT
Yes, probably captured (or abandoned) tiger. Pic definitely looks like its after the battle, US insignia already on it. Thanks.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2023 18:21:30 GMT
You really need to update your bucket list Elwood, and add the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, Aberdeen Proving Ground, and Bovington in the UK. You will find at all three all of the Armor, including a lot of German WWII stuff you could ever wish to see. Aberdeen has "Anzio Annie" too. I think the only running Tiger is a Bovington, Tiger 131 captured in Tunisia. Ian correct me on the turret number if I am wrong. Never been to Bovington but have seen a lot of photos of their stuff. Been to the other two, and I could spend a week at each of them.
We used to have a bunch of captured Russian stuff here at one time, but when the 3rd Cavalry moved to Hood, they took most of it with them.
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Post by Elwood on Mar 7, 2023 18:41:00 GMT
Will do. Of course those are a bit away from me, Ft. Hood worth visiting? Thats just a piece down the road from Ft. Worth.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 7, 2023 19:59:58 GMT
If you have 1 hour 20 mins to spare then give this movie ago, it is the one with the tiger footage, as I said earlier it was made in 1946 and shot on the actual market garden battlefield with the actual battle damage, plus every single man who appears in the movie had been part of the operation a year before. linkIt says in the notes that the film crew dragged battle damaged Panthers from the fields to use as props.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2023 20:11:43 GMT
I was wondering what I am going to do tonight. Now I have a movie to watch
I don't know what Fort Hood has in the way of monument or museum tanks Elwood. Have not been there since 1986. Did not have much then, but the 1st Cavalry Division and 2d Armored Division museums left something to be desired. At that time they were both in old World War Two vintage buildings and they were cramped with poor lighting. Of course, the 2nd AD museum is now boxed up somewhere as the division is no longer active. Both divisions had nice collections, they were just poorly displayed due to cramped and not built for the purpose quarters.
Colt was stationed at Hood in the 2nd AD. Maybe he can give you more insights than I can, because when I was last there I was TDY, and did not have a lot of time to spends wandering around.
Another museum that I found interesting although there are not any tanks that I saw is the U S Cavalry Museum at Fort Riley. They use one of the buildings of the old Cavalry School. That's one I would like to go back to. It is dedicated to the horse cavalry and sort of stops about 1945.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 7, 2023 20:24:50 GMT
Munster in Germany has a good museum I believe, they have a complete Pz 1 which looks almost brand new linkThe only version of the Pz 1 in Britain is the command version link
Don't expect any Hollywood style acting in the movie QC, you will see at lot of British stiff upper lip, but it was made for era it was filmed in 1946.
Ian
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Post by miker on Mar 8, 2023 3:46:05 GMT
Patton Museum moved to Fort Benning.
Aberdeen Museum has moved to Fort Lee.
There may be some stuff left behind at Each post. Have not been to any since 1986 or 87.
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