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Post by Beth on Jun 5, 2022 23:35:27 GMT
Unfortunately this is only available on Netflix but I thought it was so good that I've watched it three time. It's about the English plot against the Nazis to disguise the Allies plan to attack Sicily at the start of their march up the Italian peninsula.
I had read about the operation before--drop a body dresses as a Royal Marine off the coast of Spain with all sorts of 'classified' information on how the Allied forces would attack at Greece instead of the expected Sicily
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Post by quincannon on Jun 6, 2022 0:17:42 GMT
"The Man Who Never Was" starring Clifton Webb. The story is true, although the movie takes some slight liberties First rate show.
One you might also enjoy is "Cockelshell Heroes". Another slightly modified story about Royal Marine Commandos.
Best movie of them all in that genre is the "Sea Wolves", with Peck and Roger Moore. Another real operation
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Post by Beth on Jun 6, 2022 0:51:48 GMT
I'll have to see if I can find it since I happen to like Clifton Webb. I wondered if my guess at what role he played because I thought he would be perfect for the role of Lt. Cmdr. Ewen Montagu. I am wondering if I saw it at a very young age. My mother loved to watch afternoon movies. I do remember her watching A Night to Remember which at the age of below the age of 5 (I remember what house we lived) in scared me absolutely to death-not because the ship sunk which was bad enough but the kid lost his father which is most terrifying to a kid that age.
I find all shows based on history take slight liberties, especially adding romances where none is needed.
I'll have to look for the ones you recommend.
I'm glad they have redone the story because it will reach a new generation.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 6, 2022 7:32:49 GMT
Beth, you might also like the movie "I was Montys double" with sir John Mills, another true story.
I shall check out that new movie on Netflix.
Ian
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Post by herosrest on Jun 6, 2022 12:55:22 GMT
I read the book and various background more years ago than is good for me. A remarkable example of this Country's desperaye desire to survive and maintain our traditions of orange peel preserve. Our motto, To protect and 'preserve'™ Ducemus!
Per Wiki - The events were depicted in Operation Heartbreak, a 1950 novel by the former cabinet minister Duff Cooper, before one of the intelligence officers who planned and carried out Mincemeat, Ewen Montagu, wrote a history in 1953. Montagu's work formed the basis for the 1956 British film The Man Who Never Was.
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Post by herosrest on Jun 6, 2022 13:02:13 GMT
A personal note. The failure to take back Greece and rather confront the Italian Axis, was the greatest blunder of the war.
Very little considered. Of course Churchill had some experience with the region and Dardanelles and bloody failure.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 6, 2022 15:50:23 GMT
Clifton Webb played Montagu Beth.
Take back Greece HR? British troops should never have been sent there in the first place. I refer you to "The Desert Generals" by Correlli Barnett for further reading on the matter, in the section of the book that deals with Wavell's tenure as CINC Middle East. He already had his plate full in his theater, and then on Curchill's order the Desert Force, which would soon become 8th Army, was stripped of nearly all of its experienced combat power to go to Greece, where he was tp lose most of the combat power, but thankfully not all of the experience. The end result was that you had to fight Rommel in the deert for the next two years. That could have been prevented.
The Allied objective in 1942 when Churchill proposed Greece again was to clear the Med of the Axis. Hold Malta and use Sicily as a springboard to Italy was the correct decision, in my estimation. Greece would have been a nice to have, but not essential to the mission. While the Allies by that time had a superiority of forces, butter only spread so thin.
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Post by Beth on Jun 6, 2022 21:01:13 GMT
I disagree HR. Attacking Italy took one leg of the axis. It was a morale victory which I think can be as important as some battlefield victories.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 7, 2022 7:57:57 GMT
The main force in Greece and balkans in general, where Italian troops, once they surrender in 1943, the Germans had to take over the void left by the Italian army plus dissarm and sort out the soldiers who where stationed there, but once Bulgaria and Romania surrender to the Soviets, the axis had to get out of the balkans otherwise get trapped there.
We made the best choice with Italy, but the British had to rush in there late 1945 to stop the commie take over.
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Post by herosrest on Jun 7, 2022 17:07:42 GMT
Difficulties with Eastern Med are supply lines.
That said, Austria is the shortest route to Germany.
Italy was a Philippines - why? Why bother.
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Post by herosrest on Jun 7, 2022 17:14:43 GMT
My Fuehrer. We thought they were going to Sicily. The Americans just took Braunau on the Inn. link
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Post by herosrest on Jun 7, 2022 18:08:43 GMT
Ok. The Med front was naval war with the US learning it's game on land and developing amphibious logistics and capability. The US fought two global fronts and the carrier forces which ran riot across the Pacific would have done the same in the Med. Absolute hindsight but go for the throat, balls and belly and finish it.
Long fragile supply lines. Shortest land route to DE.
The ME war was about UK's supply lines et al and El Alamein.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 7, 2022 20:09:27 GMT
With regard to your 1943 Med strategy HR:
I am reminded of the occasion when Field Marshall Montgomery assembled two U S divisions for a pep talk prior to D Day. One division was the 1st Infantry Division "The Big Red One" a highly experinced division having seen combat in North Africa, and Sicily. The other was the 29th Infantry Division "The Blue and Grey" whose only combat experience had been in bar fights in the pubs and villages near Tidworth Barracks. At the conclusion of Monty's presentation, the 29th arose and shouted 29 Let's Go. To that, the 1st Division arose, and shouted - After you.
So my impression of your proposal HR, my dear friend, is --------- AFTER YOU
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your proposal is BOLD with a big B, HR, but you are sashaying up the Adriatic between two hostile shores, and while German air power was not nearly as powerful as it was during the Battle of Britain, it still had a lot of punch. You might also consider a rather formidable threat from German S Bootes and Italian MAS boats. Sicily effectively knocked Italy out of the war, but those MAS boats were still avalable manned by German crews.
Consider this for a moment. I think it equally bold but much less of a gamble, a calculated risk if you will. Scratch Salerno, and launch Anvil-Dragoon in April of 44, before Overlord. Meanwhile do a head fake on Italy tying down as many Germans as you can. Then go for Overlord in July.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 8, 2022 13:37:43 GMT
Well HR, The problem faced by the British was one of man power, the back end of 44 saw Infantry battalions really low on bayonett strength, then even reached a point where they disbanded AA units and use the gunners as Infantry. A friend of mine said on another board that in France after D Day, many Infantry Companies just acted as security for artillery forward observers, these companies were really low on men and they used the artillery to blast enemy strong points, if this worked then the defenders would simply move back to the next village and the advance continude. Here is a thread on the 59th Staffordshires around this period and how losses effected them; link
Ian
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