The 7 P's

[Beth]

I am unsure if anyone wants to go into this but I have heard the term several times lately (Mostly on Forged in Fire).  

Prior Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance


From the beginning (the halls of Washington) to LBH where were the success and failures.   Pick any aspect of the campaign you wish.

[yanmacca]

Never heard of "forged in Fire" Beth, so thats a new one on me, is it similar to "Game of Thrones"?

Burying our Michael tomorrow, so I will be off line until Friday.

[Beth]

Forged in Fire is a competition show where they forge weapons with the final two forging weapons from history or even gaming fantasy. It seems to have a lot of contestants who are either in the military or retired from the military. It's one of the reasons you hear the 7Ps so often on it.

[deadwoodgultch]

Beth, there is much hidden in in your 7 P's, militarily. I am sure that our 3 military officers could give you chapter and verse on this.

I will just throw out some thoughts here. Custer away from the regiment during the preparation/planning phase. Not enough horses, when Col. Sturgis was in charge of remounts. Senior officers on leave or detached service. The number of recent recruits ill trained, many left at staging point on Yellowstone for lack of training and too few horses. Not properly trained mules. Not sending Herendeen through Tullocks to inform Terry of change in plans. Not listening to Scouts. Dividing the regiment continually. Not having a shared plan and fallback. Tunnel vision. I think I could have probably have added not taking the offered 2nd Cavalry companies, lack of proper recon and/or scouting, and if three companies were really left behind from the move to the move to Ford D.

This last part is no to start a political discussion, but there are three R's in education. Raeding, Riting, and Rithmetic and our lack of focus on core subjects and not demanding excellence over the last 50 or so years is why we as a nation languish where we do in the World Rankings. The Seventh did not focus on the core subjects for success.

Regards,
Tom

[quincannon]

Well I am not sure the Seven P's apply to all of your entries in your second paragraph Tom, after "not properly trained mules" Those before that item most assuredly apply, but those after seem to be errors of execution of the plan, which no preparation could mitigate.

As to your three R's, I would add a thorough grounding, starting at the junior high, and continuing through high school and college, in history and political science. We have people today, in fact I would say the majority, that do not know how their government works, or is supposed to work, and who have absolutely know knowledge of our history, both good and bad, stellar and shameful. Political science and history are just as important to a well grounded citizen, as math, and literacy. Strong nations are characterized by healthy, well educated people, so much in fact that those two items are critical to national defense, and the sustainment of a republican democracy.

[deadwoodgultch]

You are assuredly correct in your assessment of my list, I will have to deal with that that as I was listing any lack of follow through in any aspect of pre-battle execution, I guess.

Regards,
Tom

[deadwoodgultch]

Science and geography are lacking as well.

Regards,
Tom

[quincannon]

I would say those latter items are more functions of a flawed personality, lack of attention to detail, arrogance, and a complete lack of any higher education in the profession of arms. Grant himself pointed out this last, remarking on how a West Point education does not prepare one adequately to command at any level, and he wrote this after the Civil War, saying that the graduates were moderately capable engineers. Then he promptly did nothing about it. The Army school system did not really get a complete start until after World War I.

Science and Geography I would say are important as well, but I would rate the latter more so than the former. Science, beyond the very basic is not everyone's cup of tea. Those that show promise in that field though, should be encouraged with scholarships, and all the material support available, as that too is a national security issue. Geography is an essential for everyday life. If you don't have some basic understanding of it, I fear getting lost going to the grocery store is on the near horizon.

I also would say that I take exception to the Seven P slogan itself. Proper prior planning does not prevent piss poor performance. You can have the best plan man can conceive, and still fail, because the other guy has a vote. I despise sloganeering in the first place, because there are too many variables. The reverse is also true. You can have a poorly conceived plan, that somehow works out, due to one of two factors, outstanding execution of a poor plan on your part, or lack of adequate response to your actions on the other guy's part. Of the two choices though good plan, or bad plan, more people win with a good one, than they do with a bad one.

I would also be remiss if I did not say that I fully support a free education for all though the college level. It would only apply to state and federal colleges (service academies where it is already free), and not to private colleges and universities. The person who went on to a free college education would have to pass a rigorous examination to enter. Community colleges should be two track, basic and vocational education. How many plumbers do you know that are great plumbers, but don't know how to run a business?  All of this costs money, lots of money, and the only way it can be funded is through taxation at state level. That's the short term bad news. The good news is in the long term such measures pay for themselves. The taxes would apply to only those who had received a free college education, and would be a subsection on that person's state income tax, scaled on that person's ability to pay based upon earned income. College tuition loans, in actual fact, that would at least be repaid in part if not whole, which is a heck of a lot better than we are doing now. 

I am neither liberal or conservative. I am an instatutionalist. The institution, in this case, is the country which must be maintained in all respects, regardless of cost. 

[deadwoodgultch]

We have been more and more remiss in offering good vocational training over those same 50 years. The dual track was part of th educational mainstay of the old Soviet educational system. One of their finer points.

Regards,
Tom

[Deleted]

The Spartan's also had 3 R's. Run, 'rassle, and Riddle your opponent.

[quincannon]

It used to be part of ours too. If I guy wants to be a plumber, mechanic or carpenter, why should he not have a well rounded business education so he can start and maintain a business to practice his plumbing, mechanical, and carpentry skills successfully?

Requiring a nurse to have a four year college degree is stupid and silly. They can learn the necessary basic skills in two, and go on to a more advanced education as their career moves forward.

I would also like to see a national military university for enlisted personnel as well. Four years of paid for eight years of required service. Again passing a rigorous examination and three year honorable prior service would be required. The college time would also be active duty time, drawing pay from Uncle for bettering themselves and making them more valuable soldiers.

The Spartans did not have howitzers.

[Deleted]

My source for the Spartan 3 R's was It All Started With Stones and Clubs, Being a Short History of Warfare and Weaponry From Earliest Times to the Present Noting the Gratifying Progress Man Has Made in Doing Away With One Another by Richard Armor, a retired Army Colonel who I think was embarrassingly and infantryman.

The Spartans would of course used their Spears and Swords to Riddle their Opponent.

Other useful tidbits to the military art from the book are:

In Spear Throwing it is important to (1) throw accurately and (2) First. Footnote: To have thrown your spear and missed while your opponent still has his, is to have put yourself in an embarrassing position.

In discussing development of the Bow and Arrow, he noted that "One archer aiming at another archer about to let fly, became somewhat nervous. This is why the case of arrows he carries is called a quiver.

There are a lot of other cool things in it, like the sequence of declarations of war in WWI, the advantages of stealth, etc. And my favorite:

In the early days, every man had the same thing, a rough cold cave, a rough cold wife, and a rough cold empty stomach.

The situation was intolerable. Fortunately, man took things into his own hands.

The thing he took into his hands was the first offensive weapon - either the stone or the club.

The first defensive weapon was the skull, followed closely by the defensive stone or club.