dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Nov 8, 2015 1:42:29 GMT
QC The Navy has the advantage of replacing ships as they age or fall out of use to a point. I know the congress has kept their hands in the decisions about the status of many vessels. I am sure the navy spends a pretty penny maintaining the mothballed fleets around the country. It must be cheaper for the air force to keep their planes in the desert for storage. I know for example the air force has tried to retire the A 10 but congress has stopped that plan. The army has had a difficult to close a base as had the other branches since congress interferes with this matter also. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Nov 8, 2015 2:07:50 GMT
The problem with either mothballing a fleet of ships or planes it means the loss of jobs, something congress critters are generally unwilling to do--especially if its in their turf. When they can replace it with something bigger and better they are always more willing, regardless if the 'new' thing makes any sense. The military is the biggest business in this country.
Beth
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Post by quincannon on Nov 8, 2015 2:43:19 GMT
Dave most of the mothball fleets of years past are long gone. There was a day when you could reach out and literally touch the history of WWII in the back basins of Philadelphia, San Francisco, and San Diego. No more. When a USN ship is retired it may be offered for sale or other type of transfer to a foreign navy. A few are kept in US custody to provide spare parts for transferred vessels. Most are immediately used as targets, as the scrapping of ships has become rare due to environmental concerns. They still do some of this, here Stateside, but nothing like it once was.
The problem is that technology is at such a fast pace relatively new ships, those say under twenty years old must either be constantly updated or retired because they do not have the internal capacity to accept upgrades. USS Virginia is not yet ten years old, but she is nearly obsolete as compared with USS Colorado a sub of the same class that will be commissioned next year.
What I was referring to though is how the Navy operationally organizes itself. The fixed organization of battleship, carrier, cruiser and destroyer divisions of WWII, have given way to mixed carrier, surface, and amphibious battle groups of today. The organize around what is, not what was relevant.
The Air Force storage area in Arizona, are primarily a spare parts depot both for us and allied nations.
The Army and Congress stopped the retirement of the A10. The AF for all its good points organizationally are still a blue sky force at heart, and don't really like the close support mission. I would rather be covered by Marine Air anyway. They take the issue seriously, not as an afterthought.
BRAC, despite those area it hurts (mostly in the economic sense) is the most fair way we have ever used to dispose of unneeded basing, and consolidation of physical structure. Actually the BRAC commission is not Congress, and they make the recommendations. Congress' only duty is to vote their whole recommendation up or down. Usually it is an up vote, and it usually is for the best, and it always hurts someone or some place, but the facts are we don't need them all, because (an yes this is me saying this) we don't need the structure we did forty or twenty or ten years ago. Never forget that more is not better. Only better is better.
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Post by Beth on Nov 8, 2015 3:12:13 GMT
Do you think that the Navy has a future or will it go the way of the horse cavalry?
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Nov 8, 2015 3:24:25 GMT
QC Good points, noted. I agree that old ships are like old tactics and need to be scrapped. The closing of bases as Beth points out really has lasting affects to the area near by. Case in point being the navy's just striking the USS Wisconsin from the Naval Vessel Register in 2006 along with the Iowa with the proviso that both be maintained in a state of readiness if needed . The Missouri was done in 1995 and the New Jersey in 1999. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Nov 8, 2015 4:13:30 GMT
Beth as long as man inhabits the earth, the sea will carry his commerce. As long then as commerce is carried a navy will be needed to control the sea lanes and protect that commerce. Navies like everything else will evolve, but they will remain constant, as the threat on the sea and from the sea will remain constant.
Dave: There will soon be a new rail gun tested, probably on one of the three Zumwalts, that will outperform every battleship gun ever devised.
Remember, all of you, that a three brigade division of 2015 can dominate the same battle space or more that a field army did 60 to 70 years ago. In WWII we fielded nine field armies, if you don't count the 2nd, 4th, and 15th which were either training or administrative headquarters. So using the division for field army substitution we actually have more dominant combat power today than we did in 1945, and I did not even figure in the eight National Guard or three Marine Divisions.
When you realize that one carrier battle group today has the striking power of the Third/Fifth and Seventh Fleets combined in 1945. We actually have 10 carrier battle groups so you do the math.
You don't really need as much in manpower and things, when the manpower and things are enhanced by the technology of today and the promise of tomorrow.
The trend is for force structure to be reduced as the capability of the remaining structure increases.
All that said I still believe the crossbow, broad sword, battle axe, and mace and chain are necessary for any well rounded soldier.
It's time for my Twinkie and glass of fruit juice now, then I am going to crawl into my Georgie jammies and cuddle up with my Benteen Bear.
IF YOU AIN'T CHANGING, YOU AIN'T THINKING
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Nov 8, 2015 4:46:06 GMT
Good night and I appreciate the history lesson. I have learned so much this last year about my country and her people. Regards Dave
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Post by yanmacca on Nov 8, 2015 13:49:40 GMT
The day of the horse is well and truly over, if troops need to travel on roads they use wheels, if they want to travel over rough terrain they use tracks, then we have terrain in which neither wheels or tracks cannot navigate like high hills and mountains, narrow ravines, thick jungle and forests and other rocky outcrops, and here we may have a place for four legs, but hey why stumble about on a horse or mule when you have a helicopter, this handy machine along with wheels and tracks gives troops the capability to go any place and fight a battle, plus if a horse is hit then you have a creature that will need to be despatched, if a truck gets shot up then the mechanical guys will have it running again or cannibalise it for spares.
Yan.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Nov 8, 2015 15:11:07 GMT
After I was crippled, I finished my career in recruiting command.
In addition to running my own BN, I also handled every waiver request for the 18X program, where we recruited civilians directly to Special Forces. (our plan til then was to have folks demonstrate ability in the Army for at least 5 years before we let them apply).
I got a request to waive a guy for a minor criminal conviction: possession of burglary tools. But I am a suspicious bugger, so I asked for his phone number and called him. He was a weasel and all my Spiderman senses went off. So I called the local police, who handed me off to someone, not sure if cop or DA. The original charge was armed robbery. It should have been attempted murder as he tried to shoot someone, but had a jam.
I found myself furious at a criminal justice system that let this degenerate criminal walk from numerous crimes with no punishment. He had some 70 plus charges, with one conviction, for armed robbery, attempted murder etc. He was the enforcer for a drug gang. The system sucks sometimes. I am limited to my knowledge which includes state courts, attorney general, and county attorney. All of these positions are elected.
The work product of an investigation is privileged between investigator and prosecuting attorney. During the investigation only the prosecuting attorney can release information to the defense. If an officer writes a report then the report itself is subject to freedom of information. You would need to get the report number to speed the process.
What is not available is the work product of the active investigation. That discovery may be added as as supplemental reports to the original narrative report.
Work load at the county attorney level causes dismissals, plea bargains, and deferred prosecutions. The number of cases that must be processed in a timely manner is the limiting factor in a lot of cases.
I agree that some get away with criminal activity but feel it is a case load and the right to speedy trial that drives the work load issues. I don't think very often it negligence at the county attorney level.
The only time an officer is involved is when the violation is citable by a written citation or a request to issue a summons.
Citations are for civil action, petty offense, or misdemeanor violations. Citations are not issued for felonies and officers can not get a defendant into court on a felony charge. An officer working a felony case gives his report and a completed felony charging document to the county attorney. It can be rejected at that point or the county attorney can proceed. In my experience the next step is county attorney takes it to the grand jury.
The majority of the felony cases I was evolved with were shootings that occurred while hunting and we would wait for an outcome before we charged a misdemeanor misuse of firearms. My investigator had more experience with charging felony counts through the county attorney. There is a monetary level that when exceeded becomes a felony level
Regards Steve
Regards
Steve
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 22:32:03 GMT
Our dear friend Mark has shown up on the lunatic/liar board. He will fit right in.
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Post by Beth on Nov 8, 2015 23:11:26 GMT
Are you sure it's the same Mark?
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Post by Beth on Nov 8, 2015 23:28:15 GMT
Nevermind--if not, it's a doppelganger.
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Post by quincannon on Nov 8, 2015 23:36:51 GMT
I was just going to say bet the rent money on him being the same.
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Post by yanmacca on Nov 9, 2015 13:44:03 GMT
My god I thought I never hear that knob-head's name again, thank the lord he's on Billy Keogh's board and not here, he is Rini's problem now so I wonder how he gets on over there and will Rini allow him to cause merry hell on his watch.
Yan.
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Post by quincannon on Nov 9, 2015 15:39:13 GMT
WE have all met Marks in our life. They are the people who cannot deal with a refute or a rebuke because they think they are smarter than everyone else, and how dare anyone tell them they are mistaken, wrong, out of touch, don't know the subject matter at hand.
Montrose is correct. He will find a home over there amongst his fellow travelers, and judging from this mornings traffic, already has, save those of our own of course.
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