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Post by quincannon on Jun 17, 2020 4:11:06 GMT
If you believe that bullshit then you believe that the Confederacy was legitimate. Where in the Constitution does it give any state or group of states the right to withdraw from the Union. Don't bother to look. It does not exist. So don't give me any of this former country shit. He committed treason upon the United States. He did the same thing that Benedict Arnold and Aaron Burr did, make war or conspire to make war, against the United States. Where are the statues in this country to Arnold and Burr?
You don't hate slavery? You are frigging condoning the practice with every goddamned word you write in defense of that nest of treason, and abusers of God's children FOR PROFIT. If you hated slavery then you would stand with the angels, and insist that all remnants of the inhumanity that was the Confederacy be abolished from the public square. You are a hypocrite, saying one thing, but believing another.
You cannot stamp out prejudice in the human soul Tom. All of us are prejudiced. Prejudice and racism are two different things though. You may be prejudiced against a Black, or any other race or creed. That is between you and your God. Racism is when you act upon your prejudice, and it is always wrong, no matter where it is. Black people don't give a rat's ass if White people like them. All they care about is getting a square deal, the same as anyone else. That is their birth right as Americans.
Mathew tells us (18.9) that Jesus said " And if thy right eye offends thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee, for it is profitable for thee to lose one of thy members, and not that the whole body be cast into hell" Now you either believe what BIG J had to say about the current issues at hand or you don't, but if you don't, don't then dare to say you follow in His ways. You are only fooling yourself, and will be called to account.
And if any of you are so stupid as to believe that Christianity is all about praying and sanctifying, disabuse yourself of the notion. It is a life style, to be lived every hour of every day, and if you don't understand that and heed, all that praying and sanctifying don't mean shit. That is the lesson left us by the God-Man who preferred the company of whores, soldiers, and tax collectors, over the hypocrites of His day. And so do I.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 17, 2020 12:55:22 GMT
I have had great fun baiting you for two days, but our pettiness has little to do with the original post, a historical fair look at all aspects and theories about the battle of the Little Bighorn.The loss of opportunity to properly debrief the surviving participants of the Custer portion of the battle.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jun 17, 2020 15:33:42 GMT
So you take your joy from taunting others do you. Well that says more about you than anything else doesn't it.
You are right though. I have had my say, petty as it might be, but there is not a swinging dick that does not know where I stand, unlike your hypocritical stand where you say one thing but really mean another. Access yourself.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 17, 2020 20:25:51 GMT
And how, may I ask, is it that you have such a masterful understanding of what is in another's heart or mind, all knowing one? Is that you so aptly quote scripture, in that rather pompous fashion and have the ear of the Lord?
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jun 17, 2020 22:18:23 GMT
How do I know what's in your mind. I read what you say today and compare it to what you said yesterday. Sometimes I read what you say in your first paragraph and compare it to what you say in your last paragraph. That's how I know.
As an example: One day you will say you fully support equal justice for Blacks and other minorities, and the next you will fully support retaining the trappings of the Southern Confederacy. Either you do not know that the two can never fully coexist in the same society, or you are two faced, telling the segment of the audience you are addressing what they want to hear OR you are an idiot. Now I know you are far from an idiot, because I know you that well, so it has got to be one of the first two.
Now I want you to consider, what other segment of our society is so stupid in the red neck, corn pone eating, living in the turnip patch, delusions of adequacy dream world they live in, as to glorify for the last hundred fifty five years, having the shit kicked out of them by the United States Army and Navy. That takes a special kind of stupid.
I can quote Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck with equal vigor and accuracy, and both of those worthy souls have more goddamned sense than you display on occasion.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 18, 2020 8:43:04 GMT
C'mon everyone, let's take it easy, we can't change the world by falling out. Let's all take a knee!
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 18, 2020 13:20:04 GMT
Dame Vera Lynn died this morning, at the age of 103. I dearly hope she meets again, those blue birds over the white cliffs of dover!
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Post by quincannon on Jun 18, 2020 15:01:12 GMT
The Sweetheart Of The Royal Air Force. She did as much to defend Britain in its hour of need than any pilot in a Spitfire. God rest the soul of a really great lady and British national hero.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 19, 2020 13:27:40 GMT
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 19, 2020 14:33:01 GMT
(Moderator editted down to a discussion on treason which has the bones of a good discussion though it will be closely watched)
For the most part on issues we are very close. I always thought I was a very "black and white" guy on issues. When dealing with you I have learned that I see many shades of Gray. You claim three treasonous above.
Examples: Benedict Arnold traitor? Treason yes, but was he ever involved in a trial, even in absentia? He did what he did for money and ego. The British officer corps never liked him and Major Andre died for his sins.
Arron Burr: I agree, on the surface, but the courts did not seem to. Burr served as a Continental Army officer in the American Revolutionary War, after which he became a successful lawyer and politician. He was elected twice to the New York State Assembly, was appointed Attorney General of New York, was chosen as a U.S. senator from the State of New York, and as US Vice president vice president. In the waning months of his tenure as president of the Senate, he oversaw the 1805 impeachment trial of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase.
Burr involved himself with General James Wilkinson, Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Army at New Orleans and Governor of the Louisiana Territory and Harman Blennerhassett for land deals and other self serving business dealings.
General Wilkinson decided he could best serve his conflicting interests by betraying Burr's plans to President Jefferson and to his Spanish paymasters. Jefferson issued an order for Burr's arrest, declaring him a traitor before any indictment. Burr read this in a newspaper in the Territory of Orleans on January 10, 1807. Jefferson's warrant put Federal agents on his trail. Burr twice turned himself in to Federal authorities, and both times judges found his actions legal and released him. Burr had been arraigned four times for treason before a grand jury indicted him. The only physical evidence presented to the Grand Jury was Wilkinson's so-called letter from Burr, which proposed the idea of stealing land in the Louisiana Purchase. During the Jury's examination, the court discovered that the letter was written in Wilkinson's own handwriting. He said he had made a copy because he had lost the original. The Grand Jury threw the letter out as evidence, and the news made a laughingstock of the general for the rest of the proceedings.
The trial was presided over by Chief Justice of the United States John Marshall, began on August 3. Article 3, Section 3 of the United States Constitution requires that treason either be admitted in open court, or proven by an overt act witnessed by two people. Since no two witnesses came forward, Burr was acquitted on September 1, in spite of the full force of the Jefferson administration's political influence thrown against him. Burr was immediately tried on a misdemeanor charge and was again acquitted
Burr was certainly a dishonest, disreputable, and a scoundrel.
As For Lee, he did the honorable thing and resigned his commission. Treason would have been taking the offered leadership of the US Armies, then surrendering to the confederate troops who routed the Union Troops at 1st Manassas on July 21, 1861 in Prince William County, Virginia, just north of the city of Manassas and about 25 miles west-southwest of Washington, D.C. The Union's forces were slow in positioning themselves, allowing Confederate reinforcements time to arrive by rail. Each side had about 18,000 poorly trained and poorly led troops in their first battle. It was a Confederate victory, followed by a disorganized retreat of the Union forces.
A list convictions for Treason:
Philip Vigol and John Mitchell, convicted of treason and sentenced to hanging; pardoned by George Washington; see Whiskey Rebellion.
John Fries, the leader of Fries' Rebellion, convicted of treason in 1800 along with two accomplices, and pardoned that same year by John Adams.
Governor Thomas Dorr 1844, convicted of treason against the state of Rhode Island; see Dorr Rebellion; released in 1845; civil rights restored in 1851; verdict annulled in 1854.
John Brown, convicted of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1859 and executed for attempting to organize armed resistance to slavery.
Aaron Dwight Stevens, took part in John Brown's raid and was executed in 1860 for treason against Virginia.
William Bruce Mumford, convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.
Walter Allen was convicted of treason on September 16, 1922 for taking part in the 1921 Miner's March with the coal companies and the US Army on Blair Mountain, West Virginia. He was sentenced to 10 years and fined. During his appeal to the Supreme Court he disappeared while out on bail. United Mineworkers of America leader William Blizzard was acquitted of the charge of treason by the jury on May 25, 1922.
Max Stephan, a German-born Detroit tavernkeeper, was convicted of treason on July 2, 1942, after the jury deliberated for only one hour and 23 minutes. In April 1942, Stephan harbored and fed at his tavern a German pilot who escaped from a Canadian POW camp. On August 6, Judge Arthur J. Tuttle sentenced Stephan to death by hanging. He was the first man convicted and sentenced to death on a federal treason charge since the Civil War. His sentence was later commuted by President Roosevelt to life in prison.
Hans Max Haupt, Walter Otto Froehling and Otto Richard Wergin were convicted of treason and sentenced to death, and Erna Emma Haupt, Lucille Froehling and Kate Martha Wergin were convicted of treason and sentenced to 25 years in prison on November 24 1942, in a joint indictment. All six individuals were charged with treason for giving aid and comfort to the executed German saboteur Herbert Hans Haupt. On appeal, these judgments were reversed and remanded to be retried. Hans Max Haupt was convicted again on June 9, 1944.[19] He was sentenced to life in prison. He appealed again, but the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed this judgement. Walter Otto Froehling and Otto Richard Wergin were sentenced to 5 years in prison on July 22, 1944 as accessories to treason. Hans Max Haupt eventually appealed the case up to the Supreme Court, which sustained the verdict against him.
Martin James Monti, United States Army Air Forces pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen SS in 1944. He was paroled in 1960. Robert
Henry Best, convicted of treason on April 16, 1948 and served a life sentence.
Iva Toguri D'Aquino, who is frequently identified by the name "Tokyo Rose", convicted 1949. Subsequently, pardoned by President Gerald Ford.
Mildred Gillars, also known as "Axis Sally", convicted of treason on March 8, 1949; served 12 years of a 10- to 30-year prison sentence.
Herbert John Burgman, convicted of treason in 1949 during WWII for spreading Nazi propaganda; sentenced to 6-20 years in prison.
Tomoya Kawakita, sentenced to death for treason in 1952, but eventually released by President John F. Kennedy to be deported to Japan
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jun 19, 2020 17:26:55 GMT
I think you neglected to mention John Murrell, The Great Western Land Pirate in you post and don't you find it ironic that Robert E. Lee and JEB Stuart, along with a company of Marines was instrumental in the capture and subsequent trial and hanging of John Brown for treason. There are several monuments to Brown around the country, and every damned one of them should be torn down too, as this country makes no peace with treason.
Moderator edit of last comment. This comment is for everyone not just QC, think if a comment takes the discussion forward and if it doesn't just leave it unsaid. Lets get back on track please. We can all disagree on what is being discussed but those disagreements should not take on a personal tone.
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