dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 13, 2017 2:55:09 GMT
Public Television is showing a special on the Indianapolis on Wednesday September 13 at 9 PM Central. Thank you for the heads up. Regards Dave
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 17, 2017 14:38:03 GMT
I was reading some info on Italian submarines in WW2 and was surprised that so many served in the Atlantic against merchant ships. The most successful sub was the “Leonardo Da Vinci”, which sank 17 allied vessels [120,243 tons]. It met its fate in 1943 when two British destroyers sank her with depth charges [HMS Active & HMS Ness].
Apparently the Mediterranean was not a happy hunting ground for Italian subs, as they had 120 in service in the Med and sank 21 merchant ships and 13 warships, losing over 70 subs in the process. In the Atlantic they had 30 subs in service and sank 109 ships, and lost 15 subs.
This was down to the size of the Med to the Atlantic and how narrow it was for allied aircraft to patrol and attack any subs. Four Italian Submarines managed to get to the pacific in 1943, after the Italians surrendered, one was taken by the Japanese and the other three were took over by the Germans.
Oh by the way, there are remains of a mine field at the entrance to New York harbour, it can be found on nautical charts number 8, edition 4 and marked as NOTE C DANGER AREA, just a heads up for any of you who want to go for a spot of fishing in NY harbour.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Sept 17, 2017 17:13:12 GMT
I was reading some info on Italian submarines in WW2 and was surprised that so many served in the Atlantic against merchant ships. The most successful sub was the “Leonardo Da Vinci”, which sank 17 allied vessels [120,243 tons]. It met its fate in 1943 when two British destroyers sank her with depth charges [HMS Active & HMS Ness]. Apparently the Mediterranean was not a happy hunting ground for Italian subs, as they had 120 in service in the Med and sank 21 merchant ships and 13 warships, losing over 70 subs in the process. In the Atlantic they had 30 subs in service and sank 109 ships, and lost 15 subs. This was down to the size of the Med to the Atlantic and how narrow it was for allied aircraft to patrol and attack any subs. Four Italian Submarines managed to get to the pacific in 1943, after the Italians surrendered, one was taken by the Japanese and the other three were took over by the Germans. Oh by the way, there are remains of a mine field at the entrance to New York harbour, it can be found on nautical charts number 8, edition 4 and marked as NOTE C DANGER AREA, just a heads up for any of you who want to go for a spot of fishing in NY harbour. Bottom line, sub duty is dangerous with a very high attrition rate.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 18, 2017 2:22:13 GMT
As I was watching the remains of the USS Indianapolis being filmed, I could not but think of the men who went down with the ship. Theodore O'Hara's classic elegiac poem "BIVOUAC OF THE DEAD". "And Glory guards, with solemn round, The bivouac of the dead."
The wreckage was in remarkably good ship considering she has been under the crushing depths for over 70 years. QC and I have discussed various ships of WW II including the sister ship USS Portland. There are no remaining American Treaty Class Heavy Cruisers and only the USS Little Rock (CL-92/CLG-4/CG-4), a light cruiser, commissioned in June of 1945 remains as a museum ship.
The United States lost 52 submarines during WW II with 375 officers and 3131 enlisted men still on patrol. Brave men all. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Sept 18, 2017 15:39:48 GMT
There was a recent article in the New York Rimes involving USS San Diego (ex California) the only major combatant that the USN lost in WWI. The wreckage is located off of Fire Island and has been a favorite spot for sport diving for decades. Duane may know of it.
That class of armored cruiser had a very low freeboard and I mention it in connection with comments I made on the treaty cruisers above. It was another instance of low freeboard contributing to the loss of the ship. The Navy Historical Center according to the article is investigating the loss (from an unknown ca=use torpedo or mine) currently supposedly to add to the knowledge of design and tactics.
I should note that San Diego was renamed from California, as were all ten of the armored cruisers from state to city to free up the names for the newer classes of dreadnought battleships shortly before WWI. One of California's near sisters was Pennsylvania (later Pittsburg) which was used in our first attempt to launch am aircraft from a ship (Eugene Ely).
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 18, 2017 16:13:16 GMT
Chuck A very interesting and informative post about the Navy's selection of ship's names. I had always believed you were courting bad luck if you changed a ship's name and it seems that way for the USS California/San Diego. I listed a couple of sites below that have additional info regarding the naming of vessels. Ian do you have additional information regarding the mine field at the entrance to New York harbor ? Do you have a source I could pursue? Regards Dave everything2.com/title/ship+naming+conventionsfas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/names.htm
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Post by quincannon on Sept 18, 2017 17:47:06 GMT
They changed the names of all of all the armored cruisers from states to cities Dave, and San Diego's sister Memphis (ex Tennessee) came to a bad end as well, going aground on rocks in a hurricane as I recall. The Frederick (ex Maryland) another sister is one model I would love to have in a large scale like 1/200 or 1/350. It is the only ship ever named for Joan's home town. Had a very long service life for the day and was kept in commission until the late 1920's
I would like to know more about that mine field as well. They never found out what sunk San Diego, mine or torpedo. I suspect it was a mine, and Fire Island is close by New York Harbor
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 18, 2017 18:41:54 GMT
I have tried to find more info on that naval minefield, but there is none out there. I even found this chart for the harbor [which does enlarge if you hit the icons on the top left corner and use your mouse to scroll around] but I can't see anything.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 18, 2017 21:30:01 GMT
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 18, 2017 21:33:15 GMT
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Post by quincannon on Sept 19, 2017 2:41:05 GMT
What I said Tom was USS Frederick AC8 was the only ship named for Joan's home town. I stand by that as it is 100 percent true
The LST USS Frederick was named for Frederick County, Maryland. LST's are obsolete ship types, but when they were in service they were all named for counties in the United States.
You always have to check name sources on USN ships Tom. Although a ship may have the same name the name source may be different, or it may be combined. A couple of examples.
1) There have been a couple of cruisers and a submarine named USS Columbia for the city in South Carolina. The new SSBN USS Columbia is named for the District of Columbia in keeping with the new submarine name sources States and Territories.
2) USS Fletcher of WWII, Korea, and the Cold War was named for Frank Friday Fletcher. The second USS Fletcher (Spruance Class) was named for his son Frank Jack Fletcher
3) USS John S. McCain of the 50's-60's-70's and into the 80's was named for the WWII admiral. The current McCain is named for both the WWII admiral, and his son, also an admiral and commander of the Pacific Fleet during the Vietnam era.
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Post by yanmacca on Oct 15, 2017 12:12:08 GMT
I may have posted this link before, but I know this guy through my site and the amount of data his has regarding all armed forces is frighting, the link shows the US Navy in 1941; linkIt will take you all day to get round his site as most of his links are active, just click on and see.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Nov 13, 2017 0:21:47 GMT
Tonight at 8 pm Central the Smithsonian Channel (570 on Direct TV) will have a program Make It Out Alive about the USS Indianapolis. I have no idea whether this a good program or not but wanted to share the word. Regards Dave
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Nov 13, 2017 16:10:24 GMT
The program was moderately interesting with survivor's stories intermingle with actors portrayed in the water. However, one item did catch my attention when it was presented that the Indy's radioman successfully sent an SOS that was received by 3 US stations. Unfortunately the messages was discarded as being a ruse by the Japanese. I had always believed the ship was to badly damaged to send an SOS but learned that she did send the message for help. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Nov 13, 2017 17:15:50 GMT
One of the charges against McVay was failure to order abandon ship in a timely manner. I am not at all sure if that SOS information and its reception was discovered prior to that charge being drafted. It may have come to light during the courts martial. In any event sending such a message implies that abandon ship was ordered and that the commander was exercising due caution with regard to the safety of his crew. McVay was found not guilty of this charge
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