mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Mar 20, 2017 10:59:07 GMT
Company C, in the usual Ford B tale, are left on Calhoun Hill doing not much, until Harrington goes mad and charges towards Greasy Grass Ridge and dismounts. Why he would do this after sitting there for so long is a perennial question. The answer is he didn't.
Company C were released from the northern end of Battle Ridge after Company L. They followed down the east side of BR probably 10 or so minutes after Company L. By the time they arrived at Calhoun Hill they could see Company L in skirmish. Harrington could also see warriors along Finley Finkle Ridge threatening Calhoun's right flank. This prompted him to take his men off the ridge (as the accounts say) into the coulee and then to deploy, dismounted, along the FF Ridge. The warriors simply dropped back into the ravine (as the accounts say). Lame White Man had realised that the soldiers were moving south and had ridden to Greasy Grass Ridge. When Company C deployed in front of the ridge they were immediately attacked by the warriors in that area. Warriors that Harrington, who had just arrived, had been completely unaware of. As the accounts say LWM was able to lead a charge into the flank of Company C and simply roll them up before they had a chance to do much of anything. Again this event was witnessed by Red Hawk and was part of his account of "Custers" first stand.
(My personal opinion is that before deploying, Harrington sent Sgt Bobo back to inform Keogh, who was following on with Company I, of this deployment. This is why Sgt Bobo is found with Keogh, as are the Sgts of Company I. Not the only possibility but makes sense to me.)
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 20, 2017 11:12:17 GMT
I agree Mac, if Calhoun had the best spot available then finding another defensive position to the right of L Company would lead you to FFR.
Harrington may have saw the need to make a sweep down through the coulee to force back any bands that were gathering to Calhounās right and this sweep would clear the area and give C Company breathing space to take up positions on FFR, but I would guess that troopers would be very vulnerable while dismounting and forming into skirmish and this was spotted by Lame White Man and that could be why he decided to hit them while in the process of dismounting.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Mar 20, 2017 12:48:59 GMT
Mac, your scenario makes a lot of sense as to why Sgt Bobo was found near Keogh, especially considering the tendency for senior sergeants to be used as messengers when the message was critical, plus the fact they would be found quite close to the the company commander.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 20, 2017 15:20:17 GMT
Bobo must have reached his destination because he was found dead near Keogh, so defiantly made it though, but was his message received in time enough for Keogh to react to it?
If Keogh's company were wiped out before any survivors from the other two could reach him, then I could understand that Company I were under pressure from the get go and succumbed, but we know that a few of C company and quite a few from L company made it to his position, in fact looking at the totals, I would guess that around 40 made it, so these men must have got there while Keogh's men were still active.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 20, 2017 16:48:34 GMT
Personally I don't believe Bobo was sent from the F-F position.
I don't know how he got where he was found, but I don't believe he came from Harrington.
As to Company L survivors, that company could have easily broken before Company I started off nd the survivors and Company I could very well have met in the swale as Company I was about to be whacked.
I believe the Company C found in the Keogh Area, came south with him, and none of Company C got off or got very far off of F-F alive.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Mar 20, 2017 20:47:13 GMT
Fair enough QC! Is this because you see some confusion and mixing of units in organizing the retrograde from the north? Cheers
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Post by quincannon on Mar 20, 2017 22:05:21 GMT
Mac, the short answer is yes. Plenty of confusion. There always is when you attempt a withdrawal in close contact.
We are not really sure how the last two companies maneuvered, especially Company F. If some remains of Companies C and L pulled out with Company I, it could very well explain why all of them were caught in the swale, Company I and both set of remnants. I would suspect that if this is what happened, Company F did some adjustments to allow them to get clear.
It may very well be that the only people from Companies C and L that made it to F-F Ridge and Calhoun Hill respectively were those that you see markers for in those places. Don't know, but then again I can't know, nor can anyone else.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Mar 20, 2017 22:27:58 GMT
Happy to yield to your experience QC and I think there are other pointers to confusion that I will maybe get to some time. For the moment I will say that the three groups we are calling C,I, and L are not perhaps the "pure" companies. The officers are correct for I and L but I guess we just assume Harrington was leading C as he was never identified. Do you agree there would be flow of men from Calhoun Hill back to the Keogh area? Cheers
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Post by quincannon on Mar 21, 2017 1:25:09 GMT
Never yield to my guess work.
For all we know Harrington could have been killed in the parking lot of Death Burger Heaven.
My belief is that Company C came south as a body with maybe twenty, max twenty five, and Company L with no more than thirty.
Company I, more than likely got away with all they had living with maybe five or six each from Companies C and L. There is a good possibility that both Harrington and T, Custer were dead or wounded before they left, and C was commanded by the senior most sergeant (not Bobo).
Yes I think some may have come off of Calhoun Hill trying to make their way back to Company I. I would not give them much of a chance because surely they were dismounted. Same reason I don't think any from C that tried to come off F-F could have made it back. Too far. Too many Indians.
Stories have been created from whole cloth as to why men from this or that company were here and there, especially in the swale area. Fleet of foot daring do stories, which always seem to me to be told by the fleet of mouth with nothing to do. Men who do not understand that battle is disorganized confusion on its best day.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Mar 21, 2017 2:31:20 GMT
Never yield to my guess work. For all we know Harrington could have been killed in the parking lot of Death Burger Heaven. My belief is that Company C came south as a body with maybe twenty, max twenty five, and Company L with no more than thirty. Company I, more than likely got away with all they had living with maybe five or six each from Companies C and L. There is a good possibility that both Harrington and T, Custer were dead or wounded before they left, and C was commanded by the senior most sergeant (not Bobo). Yes I think some may have come off of Calhoun Hill trying to make their way back to Company I. I would not give them much of a chance because surely they were dismounted. Same reason I don't think any from C that tried to come off F-F could have made it back. Too far. Too many Indians. Stories have been created from whole cloth as to why men from this or that company were here and there, especially in the swale area. Fleet of foot daring do stories, which always seem to me to be told by the fleet of mouth with nothing to do. Men who do not understand that battle is disorganized confusion on its best day. I remember an account from a man who was on the field early,with Benteen I think. He commented on the number of dead horses along FF ridge. Also, the positions of Calhoun and Crittenden are of interest as a boundary to organisation in my mind. We will get to the action in the north in another discrete thread next I hope. Cheers
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Mar 21, 2017 16:22:31 GMT
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Mar 21, 2017 18:50:27 GMT
YUMMMM!
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 21, 2017 19:38:04 GMT
Certainly beats anything that burger king or MacDonalds cook up.
Is the top one a regular cheese burger with mushrooms and the second a cheese burger with fried egg and bacon.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 21, 2017 20:33:13 GMT
Try Red Robin
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 22, 2017 9:40:25 GMT
Yes it is all coming together now, Yummm and red robin, just never heard of the company, probably not got any branches over here, so the red robin has nowhere to perch [god that's bad but it beats burgers made out of robins]
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