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Post by yanmacca on Jan 19, 2017 10:29:34 GMT
No problem Beth, titles of any threads that I start are only done at the very end of my first post and as an after thought, so they are very random and some times don't explain what the new thread is actually about, but just skirt over it as to attract attention.
I must say though that in my defense, that when I was a kid I heard the story many times about my uncle Peter and the fact that he WON the Military Medal at Dieppe, I never heard anyone say he received or was awarded the MM, so really it all comes from that.
I too have been round the block a few times, and I am constantly being reminded of this fact by some of the twenty to thirty year old women who I work with. I just say that you can still play a good tune on an old fiddle.
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Post by Beth on Jan 19, 2017 22:48:41 GMT
Here's the problem with women and around the block. It usually implies here that block is not one a good woman would be walking and her experiences would be on a very shady side.
I too grew up hearing that medals were won but I suspect with time people came to understand that a medal was given as recognition of a service and not a prize won. The law covering military awards or decorations actually uses the word recipient.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 19, 2017 23:25:40 GMT
I think the best way to look at it is that you win a ball game or a prize, both of which denote a contest taking place.
The correct term for receiving a medal, decoration, or badge is that, it is awarded, and the person receiving it is the recipient.
We have often spoken here about stolen valor, and people pretending to be what they are not. One of the first clues you receive in any effort to unmask them is their use of the word won with regard to any decoration they claim to have as in - I won this in Iraq. If they were for real they would not feel they had won anything.
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Post by Beth on Jan 19, 2017 23:46:15 GMT
I think the best way to look at it is that you win a ball game or a prize, both of which denote a contest taking place. The correct term for receiving a medal, decoration, or badge is that, it is awarded, and the person receiving it is the recipient. We have often spoken here about stolen valor, and people pretending to be what they are not. One of the first clues you receive in any effort to unmask them is their use of the word won with regard to any decoration they claim to have as in - I won this in Iraq. If they were for real they would not feel they had won anything. That is interesting, language tends to trip up people all the time, like a murderer referring to a missing person in the past tense before the body has been found. It kind of shows the working of the minds of a person who would commit such a crime. They look as the recognition as the prize they are after so the medals are something they won--possibly on ebay.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 20, 2017 0:32:32 GMT
Another way to detect them is often seen thing on the crime shows, sort of anyway, that being people inserting themselves into the situation or conversation when they really have no good reason to be there.
Something like that recently happened to me. There was this fellow who joined a group of us talking shop. Well talking shop is another way of telling war stories. This fellow had never been in the military, and never pretended to be. Instead he was telling the story of how his uncle had served in the horse artillery in World War II. By happenstance, knowing his family was originally from Maryland I asked him which unit, and it happened to be mine. That unit said its farewell to horses in a very elaborate manner at Pimlico Race Track in 1937, and while I was there I entertained the war time battalion commander many times during my tenure. So much so that he gave me an inscribed history of that battalion from its beginning as a separate troop of cavalry on through its service in Europe in WWII, which he had authored. It is one of my prize possessions. In it was a complete roster of every one that had served, and guess whose name was not there.
Now I don't know if this guy just made up this stuff and was trying to impress, or if his uncle had fed him this load of bull shit and he was just repeating it without ever taking a deep dive. I tend to think it was the latter, but it really does not matter, at least to me.
That though is the same tact that some of these people pull, and why they do it is beyond my comprehension, but I think it has something to do with an inner sense of guilt or regret for not being part of something they at feel they should have.
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Post by Beth on Jan 20, 2017 1:01:51 GMT
I'm curious, could another thing that you look for is a person to wear a ribbon rack to such an occasion that though he has a right to wear them is kind of questionable. And then to when questioned about the ribbons you find they are a lot of rather obscure missions and awards. Let's just say that there was a person who showed up as a guest as hubby's company holiday party last year who just didn't seem to feel right and even 14 months later, it still bothers me because I felt he was a phony.
I have had experience with two different guys in the past who were dating friends of mine who were posing as Vietnam vets (this was late 70's) and he was ringing the very same bells that those two guys did. I've also been hit twice on Facebook by military romance scammers. It's like they reek phony.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 20, 2017 2:31:18 GMT
One of the telltale things about ribbons displayed on a uniform is them being out of order of precedence. For instance the Silver Star has a higher precedence than the Bronze Star,
Another is wearing a campaign medal you obviously are not entitled to. If you see a thirty something guy wandering around with a European Theater Medal from WWII, you know something is amiss.
One you can't pick up on without some background info on the person is a guy wearing a V Device on say a Bronze Star. The Bronze Star can be awarded for meritorious service or for valor. The V Device denotes the award was for valor, while an unadorned ribbon means for service. Unless you see the citation you can't tell if the person is shinning you or not.
Having your ribbons and badges correct is very important. You are wearing full dress when you get your official picture taken, and those go before promotion and selection boards along with your records, and they are closely looked at to make sure the record and photo matches. The board members are looking at your attention to detail, an indicator of your promotion potential.
Most of us had these ribbons mounted commercially. I used Lautersteins for one set way back when, then used the place in Baltimore that used to make MacArthur's hats for a second set, a set of full medals, a set of miniatures and my mess dress all at one time. I hate to tell you how much that cost. All my sets are out of date by two or three years at the end.
The last refuge of a scoundrel when they think you are getting too close is to say "it's classified" Sometimes they really are, and I ran into that once on a legitimate investigate, and believe I related the story here. Most however are not.
Another thing is that there exist catalogs where you can by medals a ribbons for awards that do not exist. They are just like the real ones. I get one of thee in the mail every now and again. They were once far bigger a scam than they are now, mostly having to do with some obscure thing like the Feeding The Hungry In Lower Slobovia Campaign Medal. The legitimate Humanitarian Service Medal took the wind out of that one.
People want to have a token of recognition for what they did I suppose, but there is a right way to go about it, and no matter how pure your motives are it is still wrong, and in some cases against the law. Others want to play dress up, thinking that wearing a uniform with a few trinkets makes them bigger men. Then some like a few we know are sick of both mind and spirit, and there is not a lot that can be done about that, except shun them.
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Post by Beth on Jan 20, 2017 3:38:14 GMT
This guy wasn't in uniform but I can't remember if he was in a dinner jacket, dark blazer or suit coat-it was 14 months ago and a weird night because people were in anything from formal wear to denim with a surprising number of kilts around. "Dress it up" means different things to different people. I was hoping to get a picture this year but when Steve asked he was told "She dumped him" so it wasn't wise to continue the discussion.
I was surprised at the number of ribbons though. The one that pricked my ears the most was being an adviser on a joint Dutch something something where he was the only American. I was going to try to get a picture this year if he was back but the reply at the party when Steve asked about him was "she dumped him" so he wasn't there. I wasn't terribly surprised, just talking with him about 30 minutes was enough to know he was not good news.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jan 20, 2017 11:10:42 GMT
Chuck, I should be ashamed of this, but I rarely wore dress/class A uniform and had to ask about the proper order of ribbons when I got a new bar, for a function. Thank goodness for a Combat Support personnel specialist type who helped me out.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Jan 20, 2017 14:34:15 GMT
I got lucky and never had the problem of correct placement of the arcom I received. I never got the opportunity to wear it on my class A.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 20:04:47 GMT
Chuck,
And the soft skill MOS guy, wearing a combat infantry badge. (Awarded to infantry and SF folks who engage in combat, I was not eligible in my last rotation, as I was on staff).
The absolute lowest combat decoration is the Army Commendation medal with V device. I have one, and the citation is on the wall in my library.
I do therapy at the VA twice a week. You would think the liars would have enough sense not to lie there, of all places. I run into muttonheads at least once a week. One of the best volunteers there served Nam era, claims Ranger, SF, CIB, CMB, HALO, Scuba and a variety of tabs. He wears them on an 80s BDU field jacket, from decades after his service. I still remember him telling me that I was wrong, the Special Forces Course is not at Fort Bragg, but Fort Benning.
The guy is harmless, and he volunteers 20 hours a week there. But he is as devoted to his Army fantasies as your pal, the one Dark Cloud called Costume Lad.
Respectfully,
William
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