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Post by yanmacca on Jan 12, 2017 20:16:14 GMT
Now I know that a few of you are naval coves, so I wonder if this will interest you; link
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 22, 2017 19:32:18 GMT
Here is one for you old salts, did you know the last surface action ever to be fought between battleships was during the Battle of Surigao Strait in October 1944, which was an American victory.
Side bar, there was only two such engagements of this sort during the entire pacific war, apparently clashes between Japanese and US battleships were a rare occurrence, so one of the battles was at Surigao Strait, but where did the other one take place?
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jan 22, 2017 19:45:46 GMT
Educated guess, Leyte.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 22, 2017 19:47:30 GMT
Sorry Tom, the Battle of Surigao Strait took place during the battle of Leyte gulf.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 23, 2017 16:19:16 GMT
My god, I can't believe I had no more takers on this one.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2017 16:56:21 GMT
Off Guadalcanal 14-15 November 42. Washington and South Dakota with escorts vs. Kirishima and escorts.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 23, 2017 17:00:23 GMT
Give that man a jam butty, well done Chuck.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2017 18:03:48 GMT
It would have been answered sooner if I had seen the question.
I generally ignore anything regarding USS Arizona. The fascination with this not fit for combat piece of floating junk on the other web sites I frequent, mostly regarding how she was painted on 7 December 1941 never ceases to annoy me.
Dave's father was on Portland the night before 13-14 November in the very same area. The best account of both of these action is in Hammel "Guadalcanal - Decision at Sea"
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Post by dgfred on Jan 23, 2017 21:04:35 GMT
Daytime or night?
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Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2017 22:32:43 GMT
Assuming you are speaking about the Naval Battles off Guadalcanal between the 13th and 15th of November 1942, both were night actions. The 13-14 action is the more famous of the two where we lost Atlanta, Juneau (damaged on the 13th and sunk by a torpedo on the 14th), and several destroyers. During that battle both American admirals Callahan and Scott were KIA.
The next night's action involved Washington and South Dakota plus four destroyers commanded by Willis A. Lee. We lost all four destroyers and South Dakota was heavily damaged.
Both actions saw the Japanese forces involved turn back without accomplishing their missions.
The lesson in both of these battles is the same thing we have been talking about in the "mistakes" thread - units operating together that had never trained together.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jan 24, 2017 22:08:55 GMT
If not mistaken, Admiral Lee's use of radar offset the superior optics of the Japanese for the 1st time for American forces was it not?
My father, who's ship the USS Portland, was engaged the night before Lee's successful action always said the night around Guadalcanal was the darkest he ever saw in his 22 year career. He later served on a destroyer and as a signalman he was on the bridge during all actions, night an day, so ai believe was an expert on the quality of darkness. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Jan 24, 2017 23:23:12 GMT
Dave: One of the reasons our sensors were not used to their best extent on the 13-14th was that Callahan flew his flag in San Francisco, and Scott was in Atlanta. San Francisco did not have the most modern radar, and Atlanta's radar was also a half generation behind the new stuff.
Helena, as you remember was damaged at Pearl Harbor and sent back to the States for repair and a complete modernization, so it had the latest and greatest. Fletcher and O'Bannon also had the best available. For some reason all three of these ships were in or near the rear of the column. Had they been in front, I think there is a very good chance the IJN force would have been hit first, and while maybe that would not be a battle winner, because the IJN force was very strong, it may very well have changed outcomes.
Callahan was not up to speed on new technology and probably should not have been there, thereby giving command to Norman Scott, who had won Cape Esperance under similar circumstances.
The IJN had very good optics, much better than ours, but the best optics cannot beat the best radar
Lee nearly lost Washington and South Dakota. That battle was very close run. Radar was the only thing that really saved him. I don't recall if it was the first or not. I think we got the electronic drop on the IJN at Cape Esperance.
As a general note I am not so sure that any of those battles around Guadalcanal could be classified as IJN victories, including First Savo. I don't believe that any of the IJN objectives were ever met, although we got our ass kicked tactically a number of times, and that deserves a thread all its own, operationally not getting what you set out to do counts more. For instance, we lost Quincy, Astoria, and Vincennes, and Australia lost Canberra at First Savo, but the fight with those cruisers prevented the IJN from getting among the transports, and the transports were the objectives.
Captain Hara talkes a lot about IJN optics in his book "Japanese Destroyer Captain" I recommend the book, still available after 60 years from Naval Institute Press, a classic.
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Post by rebcav on Jan 27, 2017 2:13:35 GMT
My Grandfather was aboard an APD (U.S.S. McKean) during the landings on Guadalcanal and during the subsequent campaign. He went ashore with "D" Co., 1st Marine Raider Bn. as a radioman/naval gunfire director on the raid at Tasimboko. (He was SO proud of that.) He told me once that they would hug the shoreline and try to blend in with the foliage while they saw large Japanese Warships moving up and down The Slot. Those guys were one hell of a breed. Respectfully Submitted, Duane
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Post by quincannon on Jan 27, 2017 3:23:26 GMT
I have always had a thing for the four pipers converted into APD's. Three of them Little, Gregory, and Calhoun were lost at Guadalcanal. When the last batch of Fletchers were built three carried those names Little (801) Gregory (802), and Calhoun (803). Of those Little and Gregory, along with Callahan (793) were lost in 1945 off Okinawa.
Duane: I saw a photo spread from LIFE Magazine awhile back that someone posted on another web site I frequent that contained a series of picture of McKean taken just before the war doing amphibious exercises with the Marines off of Cuba, Gitmo I guess. There were some really terrific close ups of her. I think if you Google Life Magazine wartime photos you ight find them
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Post by rebcav on Jan 27, 2017 4:06:02 GMT
I have always had a thing for the four pipers converted into APD's. Three of them Little, Gregory, and Calhoun were lost at Guadalcanal. When the last batch of Fletchers were built three carried those names Little (801) Gregory (802), and Calhoun (803). Of those Little and Gregory, along with Callahan (793) were lost in 1945 off Okinawa. Duane: I saw a photo spread from LIFE Magazine awhile back that someone posted on another web site I frequent that contained a series of picture of McKean taken just before the war doing amphibious exercises with the Marines off of Cuba, Gitmo I guess. There were some really terrific close ups of her. I think if you Google Life Magazine wartime photos you ight find them On the hunt now.....THANKS QC!!!!! You Rock..... Duane
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