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Post by Beth on Dec 9, 2016 7:42:19 GMT
I found this article about Hirohito's speech that ended the war and thought I would share it. I found it very interesting. link
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Dec 9, 2016 15:45:39 GMT
Beth I tried the link but it did not work. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Dec 9, 2016 17:21:39 GMT
For an in depth view of the Japanese Navy I would recommend, without any reservation "Shattered Sword" by Parchall and Tully. It puts you in the complete picture from the aftermath of World War I to the conclusion of Midway. It is an essential work on the subject. It goes into the political landscape as it effected the Army-Navy rivalry. You must bear in mind that these two services despised each other. You will also see that the IJN had a far more clear strategic vision than their Army counterparts and for the most part, as far as these things can be fairly measured was free of the fanaticism that was the Japanese Army's eventual undoing.
As a sidebar I have only read of one alleged war crime committed by the IJN. that being the beheading of two air crew POWs picked up by a destroyer following one of the strikes on Kido Butai at Midway. I used the words alleged, because the circumstances are very unclear, enough to bring to trial, but I do not know if there is enough to convict. The fortunes of war made the idea of any trial moot, as none of the participants survived to my knowledge. There may have been more at the hands of the IJN, perhaps many more, but I neither know of them, or do any of them even come close to those of the Army in scope.
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Post by Beth on Dec 9, 2016 18:52:39 GMT
Thanks Dave-the link is fixed. I shared the article because it included information I had not read before about an attempted coup though I am sure that most of you who are better informed about WWII than I are familiar with the information.
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Post by royalwelsh on Feb 3, 2017 23:45:51 GMT
Dave,
Nagumo's missing 3rd wave was decided by fear - he had unaccounted for US carriers.
He just wanted to get the hell out of there, with 6 intact IJN carriers. 4 June 1942 showed what happened if the Kido Butai was caught off balance.
Powerful punch, glass jaw.
Japan was a medieval society, with the veneer of modernity. The Japanese ruling class didn't treat their own underlings much better.
RW
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 4, 2017 1:02:17 GMT
RW Welcome back! Missed having you interacting with us. I appreciate the post and understand the dilemma facing the Japanese regarding the 3rd raid yea or nay vote.
The Japanese were a 18th century nation fighting against 19th century opponents who were better supplied with resources and more industrially advanced. Japan's inability to develop skilled pilots, mechanics, factory workers at the same pace as America doomed her to defeat with aged technology in planes, tanks, ships and other war supplies. As you said, Powerful Punch but a Glass Jaw.
In an odd way the Native Indians were in a similar situation, sort of, fighting the US Army as the Japanese were in WW II. Regards Dave
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Post by royalwelsh on Feb 4, 2017 1:14:42 GMT
Dave,
Not sure if Nagumo knew that the Saratoga was back at the mainland, but he certainly didn't know where the Lexington and Enterprise were.
Something else people overlook - when Nagumo turned his 6 carriers into the wind for the 1st wave, he was in the mind set that the US Pacific Fleet had received the declaration of war. And they would be well aware of Port Arthur in 1904.
RW
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 4, 2017 1:21:32 GMT
RW Sometimes one can think too much. A Southern General one time said: "never take counsel of your fears." and did pretty well in battle. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Feb 4, 2017 5:28:18 GMT
When you count operational losses, along with the combat losses for a two strike Kido Butai, the numbers hover around 30 percent.
Where was Kido Butai going to get the fuel from to get back to Japan, had they lingered the full day in Hawaiian water?
What losses could be expected in the third strike?
All these factors are important in judging Nagumo right or wrong. The ships air groups were in the IJN part of the ships company, not tenants as they were in the USN. When the air group was decimated by losses the carrier itself within the IJN system was non operational. Had the IJN followed USN procedures in this area, Kido Butai would have had five carriers at Midway, and that extra ship, which would have been Shokaku Class was every bit the equal of a Yorktown or even an Essex in capability and could have made a great deal of difference n 4 June.
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Elwood
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 355
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Post by Elwood on Dec 7, 2022 18:55:20 GMT
December 7. Never Forget.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 8, 2022 5:00:40 GMT
The question Elwood then is, what is it we must never forget?
Personally, the thing that I think we should never forget is that when a nation opens its political mouth, it better make damned sure its military posture has what is necessary to force its opponent to fold, and not call or raise. If he calls or raises, you damned well better be holding a royal straight flush. We opened our political mouth in those days and months leading up to the attack on Pearl, and were holding a pair of deuces.
Washington said it best - "The best way to preserve the peace is to be prepared for war"
Teddy put it even better "Speak softly and carry a big stick"
Now taking into consideration what I said above, and keeping in mind I spent most of my younger adult years in uniform, and having stayed very current since leaving active duty, you may take the check I am about to write to the bank and cash it.
We do not have as good a military as our politicians and pundits say we do.
We do not have as good a military as our citizens think we do.
We may be better than most, but being better than most is not nearly good enough. When the military is forced to fight it has failed in its primary purpose, which is to deter war. We have been failing since 7 December 1941, and I see no sign of that changing.
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Elwood
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 355
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Post by Elwood on Dec 8, 2022 16:20:21 GMT
The question Elwood then is, what is it we must never forget? Well for starters, we can never forget the sacrifices many men made that day. The survivors of 12/7/41 are almost gone, seems they’re 98 and above now. The date and what it means seems to fade a bit each year and I’m afraid how (if?) it’ll be remembered 5 years from now. Just trying to do my part. I’ve visited PH once, about 25 years ago. Would like to make the trip back sometime, stand on the deck of the Missouri. Maybe someday. Anyway, Never forget, always be prepared. For anything. I feel I’m just a bit more optimistic re: our military than you may be. Just me I guess, hope its well-placed optimism. I think it is. Sure we can always do better. Never stop working. This optimism doesn’t come from politicians and what they say. I’ve lived and worked in San Diego for over 30 years. Retired now, most of my time spent in Texas. But I’ve Been fortunate to see the Navy and Marines up close for sometime. Sure they’ve got their bad apples and the navy is top brass-heavy. Always has been I suppose. I’ve seen enough good out of them to have faith. Always liked that Teddy quote! Hope you had a good 12/7 and your wife is doing well. The girlfriend got that request off to the NG. Will keep you posted over on the other thread.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 8, 2022 16:41:04 GMT
She is not doing well at all. Frankly I am preparing myself for the worst. She is in good hands at present in an Army hospital, but they do not have the facilities to even make a good faith attempt to restore her to some semblance of normal. Later today she will be transported to the lung unit at another hospital, where they have more advanced equipment.
The only thing keeping me a bit sane at the moment is getting my mind off it for a few moments talking Pearl Harbor, or 804th TD.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 8, 2022 17:06:52 GMT
I don't log on as much as I used to, so I only just read about your wife, so inspite of our personal differences I hope that Joan makes a full recovery. We need our family by our side at Christmas.
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Elwood
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 355
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Post by Elwood on Dec 8, 2022 17:18:29 GMT
She is not doing well at all. Frankly I am preparing myself for the worst. She is in good hands at present in an Army hospital, but they do not have the facilities to even make a good faith attempt to restore her to some semblance of normal. Later today she will be transported to the lung unit at another hospital, where they have more advanced equipment. The only thing keeping me a bit sane at the moment is getting my mind off it for a few moments talking Pearl Harbor, or 804th TD. Very sorry to hear that. Well re: 804th TD, in my searching around, cant even remember exactly what site I saw it on, the 804th was “unofficially” the first American unit to enter Rome after the Germans vacated. But they were ordered to draw back so US infantry units could make their official entry.
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