A Little Something For Everybody

[deadwoodgultch]

For Dave, Mississippi.

For Chuck, the storyline for a Wayne Movie.

For Beth a bit of history about Iowa soldiers in the ACW.

For others a good read about a quality cavalry officer, plucked from a civilian career that would give no indication of his military acumen. Where is the DIME here?

Enjoy.

www.historynet.com/americas-civil-war-colonel-benjamin-griersons-cavalry-raid-in-1863.htm

[quincannon]

Grierson, like Chamberlain was a talented amateur. The talent for both came from their pre-war education (Grierson being an engineer), natural intellectual capacity, and a well defined sense of duty. They were both ideal material for commissioning and leadership.

The Wayne movie was at best adequate. The novel it was based on, and the follow on novel, were much better.

Cavalry brigadiers, like Infantry Division commanders are not strategists, nor do they need to be to adequately do their given responsibilities. They need to be tacticians and practitioners of the operational arts. Therefore DIME does not apply.

DIME is not strategy. DIME is the basis for, and the four elements of strategy, and without one of those elements strategy either does not exist, or cannot function.

Using Grant as an illustration

At Henry and Donaldson, in Tennessee, at Vicksburg Grant was not a strategist, nor did he need to be. He was first a tactical commander, then when elevated in his responsibilities, became a theater level operational commander. Grant did not become a strategist, until he relieved Halleck as the General in Chief of the Army. He then became the M in DIME, and his job was to insert the military portion into the overall strategic plan.

WWII in the Central Pacific

King was the strategist, along with Marshall and Arnold. They formulated the military policy portion of national strategy. Nimitz, the theater commander, translated strategic objectives and goals, into operational goals and objectives. Halsey and Spruance made the detailed operational plans, and executed them through their various subordinates. 

[quincannon]

As long as this thread is a little something for everybody:

I noticed Dave's mention of Major General Fitz John Porter on the black board this morning.

In my view no officer in the service of the United States, has ever been as unfairly treated as Porter, and that includes Gilbert Hoover of USS Helena or McVey of USS Indianapolis. Porter, after years was fully exonerated and restored to his permanent U S Army rank of Colonel (retired next day)but the damage to his reputation was catastrophic, and history as a result has generally treated him badly.

Agree, if you do agree. Set me straight if you do not. Be prepared though, for I have walked where Porter was arrayed. I have followed his route, all of it, and with the virtue of hindsight I know the ORBAT he faced and reported, and that Pope ignored.

[dave]

The music in The Horse Soldiers was excellent and the best part of the film. Those Southern accents just set one's teeth on edge. Porter was a scapegoat for Pope's incompetence and a victim of being McClellan's protege. Porter sitting out the fight at Antietam with is corps did nothing to assist his cause when he faced a kangaroo court-martial. 

Just as a quick aside three figures from Porter's trial later figured in prominent positions during the Lincoln Assassinator's trial in 1865.
United States Army Judge Advocate General Colonel Joseph Holt
Major General David Hunter
Defense Attorney Reverdy Johnson 
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

Nor did the notes he would send to his friends, Burnside, and others before 2nd Manassas.

[dave]

Porter's fate was clinched by Pope's incompetence at 2nd Manassas (notice Mac we call it Manassas here in the South) with his ridiculous contradictory orders. Porter's close association with McClellan and his inability to keep his mouth shut and his pen holstered lead to his being the scapegoat for Lincoln's administrations lack of victories.

I have often shaken my head over the ridiculous matter of Porter, 8th in his class at West Point, being ejected from the army when ole Spoons Butler just went from one disaster to another till finally the 1864 Presidential election was over and he could be defrocked as a Major General. Butler had as much business being a Major General as QC's hero Captain Pretend. Butler was a powerful Democrat that Lincoln suffered with till he could be safely disposed of. Butler's harm and hindrance to the Union cause is incalculable but politics is a different beast.

Porter's eventual return to service was vindication that he had been wronged. I imagine it to be too little too late for a proud soldier who served his country valiantly.
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

In addition,

I am not sure if Burnside forwarded those messages from Porter to Halleck and thus to Lincoln out of malice, politics, or just Burnside, who had no use for Pope either, wanting to put Halleck in the picture of what was going on at the time. Anyone know? Burnside and Porter were friends.

That order, "The Joint Order" directed Porter, and McDowell as well, to go forward, stay put, fall back and gave permission to deviate from the order itself should it be of advantage all in a couple of paragraphs. How any court seeing that could convict anyone is beyond me.

Grant and Sherman, during Porter's seemingly (for Porter) never ending appeals process commented that Porter was wronged. Hayes looked into it and found Porter had been wronged, but could not get action through Congress, Garfield did nothing, as he had been on Porter's Court, and is was not until Arthur that the matter got rectified, and Cleveland ended up overturning the whole thing, Cleveland being the only Democrat in the bunch. There is a lesson in all this for today,

[dave]

QC said:
"There is a lesson in all this for today,
"


The lesson is that politics and politicians never change but recycle continuously through the ages. Politicians and their aides meddle in military matters with no training or expertise but that in their twisted minds.
Regards
Dave

[deadwoodgultch]

Well, there is a tie in with the Mississippi raid 1863 and a 7th Cavalry member. He was left for dead twice, once by Col Custer and once by Col Benteen. Interesting.
www.nps.gov/waba/learn/historyculture/major-joel-elliott.htm

[quincannon]

Assuming that you have no intention of changing the Constitution Dave, it is the Constitutional responsibility of Congress to meddle in military and by extension naval affairs. Congress has the responsibility to raise and maintain armies. Therefore politics will always go hand in hand with military affairs.

Your second point though is quite valid. For a good number of years, your own state had a member of Congress that was very much up to speed on naval affairs, primarily shipbuilding, as your state provides on of the primary sources for new ships in the USN. His name was Gene something or other, and your state voted him out of Congress, primarily because he was a Democrat, a moderate to somewhat conservative Democrat, but a D nonetheless. Let's see what that does to naval strength, and the economic viability of your state going forward.

Unlike Gene something or other, very few in Congress today have seen military or naval service, so your point is well made, they really don't know much about the subject, and their staffs don't particularly know the difference between a bomber and a bulldozer. Did not used to be that way. The Hill in my day was full of congressional staff that took off the green or blue, and continued to serve and share their expertise. Look at the members of Congress and see who has a military background. I think you will find most of them are Democrats.

Had a chance to talk for some time with one of our Senate candidates two weeks ago. His table at the Assembly was next to the one I manned. His literature suggested that he was all for expansion of the military, and being the rain on parade guy that I am, I asked him what he meant. It was obvious to me the minute he opened his mouth that he did not have a clue what he was talking about. Our conversation concluded by me saying that Bigger is not better. Only better is better. Think about that if you ever get into a position to legislate on these matters. Did I mention that this person, in my estimation, is far and away the best of the lot, considering the other six that are running.

[dave]

QC
I assure you that I have no intention of changing the Constitution in any way or remove civilian control of the military. However what I am against is a new member of congress attempting to correct a military policy based on his or her's knowledge or that of a staff member. Hell even a new pilot has to obtain new endorsements before they fly the free skies of this nation. New members of congress should be on committees and attending to the nation's business prior to being turned loose to run the country.

Gene Taylor was a fine congressman who ran afoul of Obama and Obama care issues on the coast. Voters often forget the accomplishments of the incumbents and go with the pretty new models. Hopefully Taylor will again be in office and helping our state and country. His downfall came with the military cutbacks and turning away from a strong defense that the current President espouses. I see where a former Senator is assailing the administration for projected budget cuts for New York's security budget. I guess there is truth in the old adage "it depends on who's ox is being gored."

Tom, the former music teacher made beautiful tunes for Grant, who was tone deaf, with his soiree through Mississippi. He in fact passed within 30 miles of Oxford, which was burned by A.J. Smith's army the next year, and tore the heart out of the state. The movie The Horse Soldier's portrays the confusion and fear Grierson's raid caused which played on General Pemberton's mind while trying to defend Vicksburg from Grant's army across the Mississippi river. The Union's strength in numbers, supplies and leadership was displayed not only on this raid but by Grant's performance during 1862-1863. 
Regards
Dave

[deadwoodgultch]

Again, a little something for everybody, trivia about providential sounds(TAPS).

www.west-point.org/taps/Taps.html

[deadwoodgultch]

The above posted with thoughts of Memorial Day.

[BrevetorCoffin]

Apr 7, 2016 14:12:03 GMT quincannon said:

As long as this thread is a little something for everybody:

I noticed Dave's mention of Major General Fitz John Porter on the black board this morning.

In my view no officer in the service of the United States, has ever been as unfairly treated as Porter, and that includes Gilbert Hoover of USS Helena or McVey of USS Indianapolis. Porter, after years was fully exonerated and restored to his permanent U S Army rank of Colonel (retired next day)but the damage to his reputation was catastrophic, and history as a result has generally treated him badly.

Agree, if you do agree. Set me straight if you do not. Be prepared though, for I have walked where Porter was arrayed. I have followed his route, all of it, and with the virtue of hindsight I know the ORBAT he faced and reported, and that Pope ignored.

Have read about Porter and agree his career was unjustly destroyed. Comparing with other injustices is often subjective and always interesting to debate. I think it is fair to say that all three were competent officers done in by a service branch looking to deflect blame. Overall, no disagreement here on the travesty of it all.

[quincannon]

Correct. Something seems completely unfair when people like Porter, McVey, and Hoover are crucified for doing absolutely nothing wrong, and they make the Hero of American Youth out of the clodhopping clown that was Custer.