Never Got to Ford D

[miker]

Thanks.

[miker]

Providing a map so the unwashed can have a general idea of the location of the artifacts discovered by Scott/Donahue(?) in the vicinty of 13T CL 08354910 although there Willy Bend's House does not seem at that location.

The first is the 2017 topological contour map of the LBH and the 2nd is a Google Earth (not a map) view.

This is the danger of using secrete code and unknown landmarks to attempt to specify something that should be reported with some degree of precision.

And there is no update at the LBHA Website and the most recent entry is shown at the link.

Attachments:

[quincannon]

Well, it was there in 1967 when your map was printed. Never been there, so I suppose some well meaning soul tore the goddamned place down, and did not bother to tell Steve. After all it is Tuesday. Won't be Wednesday for 14 more hours, or so I am told by the guy on the radio who just said it was 1000 hours

[miker]

Apropos of nothing, this space booster was known as Cluster's Last Stand due to its eight engines. The Russian booster of the time actually had more nozzles (20)  ( www.nasa.gov/images/content/602987main_jsc2011e209247_full.jpg ) but only had a single combustion chamber for each engine, so it, like the Saturn V ( farm4.staticflickr.com/3141/2993535263_0f3a04b4dc_z.jpg ) had 5 engines.



The Soviet N-1 Booster had 30 engines ( c2.staticflickr.com/2/1130/5157168425_f20c992f72_b.jpg ) in its first stage, Falcon 9 has 9 engines ( i.redd.it/6cw08c9bwow31.png ), Falcon 9 Heavy has 27 but split between 3 core boosters ( www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/04/08/PBRE/1ca48755-2278-405d-a06f-cd55112edc0b-54732494_2450270378534755_4585443121536977201_n.jpg?crop=1079,607,x1,y118&width=3200&height=1680&fit=bounds ) , while Starship has 33 engines ( techobig.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/1622474895_Elon-Musk-Super-Heavy-the-first-stage-of-Starship-will-1024x683.jpg ) and is the most powerful booster ever launched.

The N-1 never flew and the Starship has not yet flown successfully.

Heres a link to how they look, together with a few other boosters:  i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/11/15/45148363-11098815-How_other_rockets_compare_The_fully_reusable_Starship_will_be_ab-a-4_1660228718053.jpg

[yanmacca]

Jun 19, 2023 23:00:52 GMT azranger said:

There was presentation at the LBHA meeting in Billings, MT. There is find near where Willy Bends’ house was location. Doug Scott can place 5 different carbines there. Looks like a detail to me. They also place a Remington Rolling Block there. There are 6 different Rolling Blocks identified in the studies of artifacts.

This information is published in the Research Review. Was at Tall Bull’s house today.

Who the heck lived in this house Steve with the green circle around it 

[deadwoodgultch]

Well,this thread is a nice line of thought. Last week at the LBHA conference a discussion about artifacts found nearer to Willie's Bend. JSIT's story seems closer to fact than previously believed by the traditional. Wish I had been there, but health precluded it. Steve will have to follow up when he gets back.

Regards,
Tom

[miker]

The reported discovery of artifacts is Useless without commentary. I await a more informative report.

[miker]

Who lived in that house is of no importance to battle analysis. It wasn't there then and I venture it was inhabited by a Crow without first hand knowledge.

[quincannon]

Artifacts without a story behind them are just bits and pieces of useless rubbish. unless you relish having those bits and pieces in your bureau drawer. I don't collect junk or have much use for it. On the other hand if those artifacts do tell a story or add to a story already told, they have value beyond price. Finding a bit of junk in Willie's front yard tells no story that I can see or adds to no story that I am aware of.

Up until recently I was in possession of spent rounds and bits and pieces recovered on the battlefield at Chantilly, Virginia. You may recall me mentioning writing my C&GS College paper on Chantilly (Ox Hill). For a long while those bits and pieces of history, as I thought of them, had value as memorabilia of a bygone day. Recently I gave them to a young man at church (15 years old) for whom the study of the American Civil War has opened up all new vistas.

Those artifacts tell no story. Don't know who fired them. Can't tell you anything about them except knowing where they were found. What I do know is that young fellow thought they were cool, and remarked on how big they were, adding a bit to his knowledge of things, but not to events.

So I guess there is something to be gained by digging around Willie's rosebush bed, but not anything of great value, only stuff for someone's bureau drawer.

[yanmacca]

Well my question to Steve was nothing to do with any battle artifacts, the fact that it was included on the JSIT map was purely for reference as it gives us an indication of how far Wolftooth said the soldiers got in regards to the northern fords.
Obviously this building was not there in 1876, so why would you think it was classed as a battle artifact or even an artifact.

Ian

[deadwoodgultch]

Sorry to add useless bits of rubbish won't bother you again, as I did not witness Donovan's presentation. It sounds though that he may be coming over to the dark side of the Ford D discussion.

I was sitting in a Medical office waiting for a needle in my spine when I picked up this thread It was interesting to pick up on Mike's blather to prompt discuion and refute the Ford D discussion. Chuck while the found casings may no fit in your myriad junk drawers, carbines not so much. As I understand it found at the bend of the river, no rose bushes on Willie's property. Willie is a last last name, related to the Real Birds.

Regards,
Tom

[miker]

5. Martini probably wounded his own horse. Boston Custer reached his brother safely, which tells you that the area was clear to Custer's rear and the fighting with Wolf Tooth had moved much further forward.

As I read through the whole thread again, this item bothered me.

Martini wounding his own horse.  That's just crazy, Chuck.  It is odd he didn't notice it, but shooting his horse is just silly.

Boston reaching his brother after passing Martini and Martini making it back to Benteen with little trouble.

I have repeatedly said that it appears to me that Custer was not heavily pursued by Indians moving NW from MTC or toward Ford D (If he ever really went that way) or on his return route from vic Ford D to Custer Hill.  Both these people making it to their destination seems to show that.

Just what is going on at the "W" line in MTC?  There appear to be at least scores, perhaps hundreds, of shell casings shown.

Oh well.  Speculation... 

[quincannon]

Not so crazy with a single action Colt in the hands of an inexperienced and poorly trained soldier. An experienced soldier would only load five rounds, and have an empty chamber. If he had his revolver out and cocked, it could have very well gone off accidently. I never said it was on purpose. Regardless how it happened the wound was obviously not serious and it was sustained somehow, between the time he left Cooke and arrived at Benteen's location. Martini makes no mention of pursuit or contact of any kind. So then if he did not do it by accident who did?

Mike are you suggesting that Martini's horse was wounded at the W during the skirmishing with Wolf Tooth. That may be the case, but one would think that while passing the message off to Martini Cooke would have noticed the wound as Benteen did, and either remounted Martini, or sent someone else.

I am skeptical about Martini passing Boston Custer. Could it have happened maybe, certainly possible, but that little voice I listen to when discussing all things from the ultra romantic Victorian era tells me that just may have been something of Martini trying to insert a little "all the brothers were valiant" romance into the mix. Not rating the story as pigeon poop, just being a bit skeptical.

Tom: Rubbish is relative, as it relates to the story. It's rubbish if all you have is the artifact without some story as to how it got to where it was found. When you put the two together, story and artifact, if you can, then the rubbish becomes pure gold.

What pray tell is the dark side of Ford D? They either got there or they did not. Where is Ford D anyway? Which one of those several crossing points is "THE" Ford D? Why do some Indians say they did, and some say they did not? Is one or the other lying? With as many crossing points as there were making up the collective Ford D, both could very well be the God's honest truth. Custer got nowhere near Willie's place Tom. He was driven back to that high ground before then, and your Cheyenne cousin's brother's illegitimate sister all say he was stopped by his initial opposition. So how is he going to get there? Please tell me. I would love to hear some sort of explanation.

Well Willie did not appreciate the finer things of life. Roses in one's garden are one of those finer things.

[miker]

Chuck. I failed to think about him having His pistol out on the way back. Point to you.

No. I wasn't U about Martini's horse being wounded at the "W". Just what was going on.

I rate the brief link up between martini and Boston as plausible. I discount everyone's stories about Boston telling George what was up. Maybe so. Maybe No.

Anything that is said about Ford D can apply to B. Absent new information, I think they went to B but did not cross.

[quincannon]

I'll take any points I can get.

Of course Boston meeting Martini was plausible. I discount those stories too. Fairy tales. Boston Custer would not know his ass from first base in terms of what his brother needed to know. By that I mean the detail that could be significant in the decision making process.

A lot of what you say about B and D is true in so far as they were places to cross the river. As to anything said the Cheyenne said a lot of anything and anything they said was surrounded by Custer trying to cross or at least approach Ford D with the most probable intention of crossing.

The question is not Ford B or Ford D. The question is did he try to cross at both or just try at D. D is set in stone. We know he tried that, a zillion Cheyenne have told us that for nearly a hundred fifty years. Trying to cross at B depends upon two factors, how he maneuvered, and just how stupid a West Point, bottom of his class, graduate can be.