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Post by miker on Aug 18, 2023 17:59:12 GMT
Mike: Don't think Martini left that early, but maybe. Open communications with Custer. No question that was Reno's duty, but each commander must translate one's duty into the means to perform that duty. Reno did not have the means to go to Custer, and would not have for about an hour or so. He did have the means though to send scouts out to attempt to find him and he failed in that duty. What those scouts had they been sent most likely would have found, even if they had been sent out immediate after first link up with Benteen (trains still in the rear but coming) was Custer's battalion in the last stages of their fight. Martini: Who knows how early he left, but he left before Custer moved through Calhoun Hill and points to the North on the way to oblivion. Communications. Custer should have returned Reno's messengers and probably should have sent another when he dispatched Martini. Benteen did not send any messengers to Custer, but the way I read his orders, Custer told him to report only if he ran into someone. Which he didn't. In the modern Army, communications are established from higher to lower, supporting to supported, but I am sure things weren't that way. There were enough errors for everyone to go around, and regardless of what anyone thinks, it is all Custer's fault, right up till he got killed, then it's Reno's. |
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 18:31:43 GMT
QC,
Benteen and I guess Martin at his side, did as you say from record left by others who made the march. From memory, Tweed was pillowed on one of his legs. So, the issue is the route of march onto the ridge and there were no trails going west beyond Deep Ravine as the march swung north off of Calhoun Coulee and Greasy Grass Ridge. They followed the trail of bodies looking for one in particular as it dawned on FWB that a dozen or so of his friends and colleagues awaited discovery.
I think that you are too lenient with Reno over messaging. Armies have communicated over line of sight for a long time. He was going nowhere for a while, was he.
There were scouts out along the bluffs towards Weir and this is not even glossed over but simply ignored.
I haven't visited for a while and glad to see all is well. Got your wets ready?
Regards.
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Post by quincannon on Aug 18, 2023 19:35:51 GMT
Armies have communicated over relatively long distances for a long time. Quite correct. What you fail to notice in this particular instance though is that these communications required line of sight, and having stood where any such communication could have originated from, Weir Point, there is no line of sight to the LSH area. About the most that I could see with a very powerful pair of Navy watch standers field glasses was the very top of the monument on LSH.
No, it was Benteen and another soldier, whose name I cannot recall but it was definitely not Martini. From the descripting given Tweed's body could have only been, up the ridge a bit from Kellogg. As Kellogg was found near Gibbon's Ford (which was where Benteen crossed) at the base of Cemetery Ridge, then the ridge in the description of where Tweed's body was located is most probably Cemetery Ridge. Now that is only an indicator that Company L was there at some time. Tweed might have been detailed away from his company, but it is an indicator that cannot be ignored, and if any other evidence exists or surfaces of Company L's members or the company itself being there, then I would say that is pretty much conclusive. Right now it is a thread to be explored.
I do not think scouts being out along the bluff line has been ignored. In fact a few books like "Where Custer Fell" cover that fairly extensively. When you look at it objectively though, where else would you expect those scouts to be as the Custer Battalion moved northward. That's where I would want them to be, and were you commanding I expect you would too.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 21:15:06 GMT
It seems that the small group of scouts acted independently to rescue those trapped below on the bottom. The Half Yellow Face party of six men. They did observe fighting to the north and returned to the Reno Hill area as Edgerley led Company D after Weir. His guidon carrier noted seeing Cross return to the command as he rode. Wiley. Cpl. Wiley.
As you point up, it is from Weir and the backend of SSH where you can view towards the fighting downriver. Communicating his situation to Custer might not have gone eell, if he had not impressed that he was unable to progrrss further.
It:s possible that Custer's staff knew of the setback in the valley but a considerable leap of faith that they knew the regiment were concentrating behind Weir Peak.
Whilst you feel the Weir terrain is unsuitable defensive ground for the seven, effectively nine, companies, it is no worse at least than that adopted. I feel the retreat was the result of the tail of that movement after Company D to the heights, being strung out along the bluffs which was the reason for falling back - falling back on Company A, the platoon of Company B and packyrsin strung along behind the fighting force at Weir and beyond.
That slow advance in the rear could have been cut off and overwhelmed. It's a premise but safety was in numbers.
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