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Post by yanmacca on Jun 15, 2016 10:57:54 GMT
I have been flicking around the web and this battle came up by chance, now I know that you will all probably know of this battle, but it was certainly new to me, and shows that when marching in column through enemy territory, you should always have your flankers out, anther thing about this is that these men had smooth-bore muskets and not single shot carbines, a lot were also green troops from European back grounds and had recently come over; link
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 15, 2016 11:18:08 GMT
More stuff, I will title this; When Washington was a British Officer; link
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,800
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Post by mac on Jun 16, 2016 12:20:06 GMT
Very interesting Ian. I was vaguely aware of this part of US history. As non Americans we tend to know more about the western history of the wars with the native tribes. Throw the French in and it becomes a very fluid situation. I can see why Washington was the man he came to be. Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 16, 2016 12:55:10 GMT
I don't know if anyone has seen the Camp/Edgerly map, Edgerly was with D Company after it went after its commander Capt. Weir, I wonder if Weir or Edgerly for that matter, actually followed Custer's trail, because the line on the Camp/Edgerly map seems to go to the east of sharpshooter hill, can anyone verify this?
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Post by quincannon on Jun 16, 2016 13:30:34 GMT
Let's take a look at the map if you have it.
Regarding Dade: Sacrificing security for speed is always a mistake. The Dade affair was the Teutoburger Wald on a smaller scale.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 16, 2016 14:06:27 GMT
Chuck, I cannot find the map on line and I tried to scan the map in Donahue book, but you cannot pick it up because it is so faint, the only reason you know it is there is because Donahue picks it out as a faint pencil line.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 16, 2016 14:08:58 GMT
This is not the map, but see if you can pick out the Custer rout and see how far back from the bluffs it is;
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 16, 2016 16:07:16 GMT
Right now lets see if this is ok, if you can see a line on the right hand side that goes behind a hill with the word high written on it, then we are in business. It looks like the line does a loop and then goes behind another piece of high ground that says high ridge, it finishes up on a [lace called Edgerly hill near a high peak, now according to the text it says; The line that shows the advance of D Troop appears behind sharpshooter ridge and makes a loop heading towards to large peaks near the river and this is the only known map from an eye witness that shows the actual trail taken by Edgerly and Weir.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 440
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Post by colt45 on Jun 16, 2016 18:14:28 GMT
Right now lets see if this is ok, if you can see a line on the right hand side that goes behind a hill with the word high written on it, then we are in business. It looks like the line does a loop and then goes behind another piece of high ground that says high ridge, it finishes up on a [lace called Edgerly hill near a high peak, now according to the text it says; The line that shows the advance of D Troop appears behind sharpshooter ridge and makes a loop heading towards to large peaks near the river and this is the only known map from an eye witness that shows the actual trail taken by Edgerly and Weir. Yan, It does appear that D company moved to the east of sharpshooter ridge. They might very well have been following Custer's trail, but then why the loop and the move toward the river? The loop couldn't have been due to Indian resistance since they moved closer to the Ford B area, that hill marked Edgerly Hill. We know when they hit resistance they retrograded back toward Reno Hill.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 16, 2016 18:39:18 GMT
Hi Colt, yes I agree and I wonder if the trail separated with one group (Keogh) carrying on towards the LNC ridges and another (Yates) moving to check out the valley and Reno, D Company may have followed the one that took it nearer to the valley or even to Weir peaks as these would give them a good observation point to locate Custer.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,800
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Post by mac on Jun 16, 2016 21:55:52 GMT
This route has long been a question mark to me. Looking forward to the discussion. Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 17, 2016 12:40:33 GMT
I hope many more join in Mac, as to the route taken, just what would have made them change direction and turn in such a fashion. D Company minus Captain Weir and his striker Private Sanders, would amount to 43 all ranks so if Edgerly wanted to change direction then why the wide loop? With a column of this size they could have halted and about faced, but I do think that one of the reasons they did alter direction was because of Weir, they may have have been alerted to his presence on Weir peak and simply changed direction to join him, as Weir may have beckoned them.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 17, 2016 13:21:02 GMT
Interestingly enough, Edgerly said at the RCOI, that Weir signalled him to swing around to the right and return to Weirs position, but this location sounds more like Weir peaks then north of sharpshooter ridge.
The author Doug Scott said that Weir and D Company reached a high point to observe the country. The point is now known as Weir point. Lieutenant Edgerly moved north with D Company about one-half-miles before he was signalled to return by Captain Weir.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 17, 2016 13:56:06 GMT
I am not sure what is trying to be learned here. I am sure that I must have missed something along the way.
The most likely explanation is that D started out where they started from. We sometimes become mentally road bound. When Benteen arrived that battalion probably spread out in at least a 180 degree arc, and if D was off to the east in that arc, that is probably where they would set out from, and that would be over the eastern side of Sharpshooter Ridge then on northward.
Read that last sentence of Ian's above. Where would Company D be one and a half miles north of Weir Point, at the time of Weir's recall. The answer is stone cold dead. SO that must mean that Company D moved a mile and a half north from some other place, and were contacted by Weir south of Weir Point, which is also consistent with this ongoing conversation.
Mentally road bound: Our minds eye sees these people all in a column. Our subconscious sees a road. We put these two factors together often and derive erroneous conclusions.
SIDEBAR: I was in Barnes and Noble yesterday and saw in the military history section a reprint army manual U S Army Tactics. Thumbed through it and was impressed with its content and ease of understanding of concepts even to the layman. I was tempted to purchase one for each of you and send them on. I didn't have half a grand on me at the time, so I passed on that Idea, but B&N carries the book. It is not real expensive, and well worth your effort. Anyone that want's more information let me know.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 17, 2016 14:05:29 GMT
Chuck is it similar to this one? linkThere are some sites that deal with all kinds of US manuals; link
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